Byzantium Total War

[edyzmedieval]

Hello modderz and friendz.

I want to ask you if you are interested in a Byzantium Total War mod.

It's a new mod, which is gonna have a new map and new starting times. The geographical position is as you might expect, Asia Minor and Europe, where the great Byzantine Empire has once stood. Many new units shall be added, bringing a totally different flavour to MTW. Starting times will be: 1071, 1204, and 1328 and will end in 1453, when Constantinople, the great capital and city, fallen to the Ottoman Turks.

Those who might be interested, leave a message or PM me or King Henry V. We need especially a modeller and a graphics expert to help us create the campaign map and also the new units.

New stuff will be added, as I said. Many new factions, new historical Byzantine Units, some new buildings, new trade goods and possibly, improved AI and diplomacy.

The Factions
----------------
The Byzantines
Despotate of Epirus
Despotate of Moreea
Empire of Niceea
Empire of Trebizond
Norman Kingdom of Sicily
Venetians
Papacy
Mongols
Ottoman Empire
Seljuk Turks
Sultanate of Rum
Kingdom of Armenia
Khazar Khaganate
Pecheneg Tribes
Bulgars
Avars
Cumans
Wallachians
Moldavians
Hungary

Progress of the mod
----------------------

Historical research: about 30%
Campaign map: 15%
Units: 0% ( made the graphics only for Skutatos and Kilibanohphoroi)
New factions: 0%(we've decided on the factions, BTW)
Testing: 0%

Starting date: 1071(after the battle of Manzikert)

Members
-----------
Edyzmedieval - Project and team leader, campaign map maker, unit maker, historical research
King Henry V - Historical research, New Buildings
Kataphraktos - Military researcher
Dirk - Battle Maps

Cheers!
Edyzmedieval and King Henry V

[King Henry V]

I have a found a a map for the period, which would encorporate much of the Eastern Roman Empire and its neighbours.

[King Henry V]

Hopeful factions would include: the ERE, Seljuk Turks, Sultanate of Rum, Sultanate of Ikonion, Hungarians, Norman Kingdom of Sicily, Venice, Genoa, Fatamid Egyptians, Outremer (could be united or several states), the Papacy, Mongols, Ottomans, the Arab emirates, the Latin Empire, the Despotate of Epirus, the Empire of Nicaea and the Empire of Trebizond.

[CountMRVHS]

Sounds like a great idea, guys!

Might I suggest that you could start even earlier than 1087... an argument could be made for including the time period of Basil II Bulgaroctonus "The Bulgar-Slayer" who I believe ruled from 1025. Don't have my books in front of me though.

A great resource is John Julius Norwich (you may have already heard of him); he has a 3-volume set on Byzantium: the Early Centuries, the Apogee, and the Decline and Fall. These 3 books are also smooshed together into his Short History, but it's probably better reading and more info to get the 3 big ones at the library or something.

I don't know what I could offer for help, as I don't know how to do any graphical changes with campaign map or units. But I hope you get it worked out, and let me know if you need anything!

It also occurs to me that the map you're using is pretty much exactly the area we are considering for the Crusader States mod. If our map gets done first, or vice versa, we might be able to do some sharing to make things go faster! Then again, some features might be different for the different periods. Just a thought.

CountMRVHS

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the help Count...

It's gonna be a great mod, hopefully somebody will download it since MTW has less and less players....Especially with the expansion for RTW goin in August...

[edyzmedieval]

BTW,

we start in 1089 because it's the start of the great Comneni dynasty, starting with the great Alexius I Comnen.

[King Henry V]

The Empire's situation was pretty strong before the deafeat at Manzikert and any half-decent player would win fairly easily. Then again an added factor to make the game harder and more historically accurate would be low loyalty generals, thus civil war would always lurk in the background.

[CountMRVHS]

Gotcha.

Is it possible to mod generals' loyalty? I'd be interested in figuring out how you could do that. One thing I've thought about doing in order to make a more "rebellious" and realistic game is to not allow watchtowers or border forts to be built by any faction. Spies and assassins would have a greater role, and although you'd be able to "see" provinces right next to you, you wouldn't know what the army consisted of unless you had an agent of some kind in the province.

Then again, border forts are nice. Something to think about.

[edyzmedieval]

Hopefully, I'm gonna find out to mod the loyalty because loyalty was an important thing in the Byzantine empire....

[King Henry V]

Count, when would you be ready to start with the mod? I'm leaving tomorrow on holiday I won't be available till August.

[cegorach]

Hopefully, I'm gonna find out to mod the loyalty because loyalty was an important thing in the Byzantine empire....

You can use titles with NEGATIVE bonus to loyalty - it is simple and efficient solution. The same way it is possible to affect piety and other stats

[CountMRVHS]

Until a map is completed there's not much I can help with I'm afraid. I can make new factions, mess with the startpos files, and create units based on preexisting units using Gnome editor.

I may offer some help in figuring out provinces and the like, but it sounds like you guys have that stuff pretty much figured out already.

However, my summer vacation started last week and my wife works through summer, so.... you could say I have lots of free time . If there's anything I can do with any of the above-mentioned areas, let me know.

CountMRVHS

[edyzmedieval]

Well Count...Here are the parts me and King Henry V are assigned to:

Edyzmedieval - New units, unit animations, modifying AI
King Henry V - New factions, new buildings
Graphics expert - Campaign map and help with new units

As for the historical info, there's no need to, because we both know very much Byzantine history (I've got about 10-15 Byzantine books at home and atmy grandparents ). Also, we both know to mess up with the startpos.... We'll contact you when we need help,ok?!

Cheers!

P.S: You didn't answer me if you want help with the Crusader States mod... Do you need?!

[CountMRVHS]

As you may be able to tell, the Crusader States mod is somewhat stuck at the moment. I haven't heard from Minister of Fear for a while.

The situation is, we have a campaign map modder who is willing to make the map for our mod. However, he needs some materials sent to him. When I told him I'd appreciate his help, he sent me the following, which told us what he needed:

"Ok, i need the map you want as background. It must be exactly 2048x1536 or the biggest you can; send it in .jpg format, in the higher quality available (it should be about 2 Mb or similar). Work on it if you want or i can do it.. i mean about sepia-toning or similar things like ancient-looking, etc. If you want, i'd like to do this as it is quite interesting to work out by PsP or Photoshop. Then i only need a rough map with the borders of the states (remember to put on it also the borders of the sea areas). Add on this map some points too to indicate where you want ports for the states near the sea and other points to indicate the position of the castles for every region. Add also the island links (like between Wessex and Flanders or Naples and Sicily in MTW). This should be enough. "

The problem now is that we don't have a map to send it to him -- either a background map or one showing the borders, etc. I worked on the provinces of the northern half of our map, and Minister Of Fear was going to do the provinces in the southern half.

However, what about this. If you guys could make up a map, the kind of map that you want to use for your mod, then put up a screenshot or something so I can see if it would work for ours as well. I think the chances are it would work, as we're dealing with the same general area. Then, if you can come up with the stuff mentioned above, we could send it along to Fader_It (the guy who is going to work on our map), and he could make up the map, and give you a copy and give us a copy. Kills two birds with one stone, as they say. It would help both of us get our mods going quicker.

What do you think?

CountMRVHS

[Russ Mitchell]

Gents, there's a problem with that map...

It's modern. Won't do for the vast majority of what you need it to.
For example, modern Croatia is much larger than medieval Croatia was...

I'd like to learn how to do maps and units (I can do startpos in my sleep now). Gnome editor is one thing, but unit graphics is something else. If somebody were willing to coach me, I could help you with a map, since i have the background, and it's a good exercise for my own stuff.

[edyzmedieval]

Great idea Count... I like it...

There is a list of problems that appear. King Henry V is leaving tommorrow so only me would modify the game.... If you want, you can join our team and I will think on what part I shall assign you.... There's much much work to be done, especially since King Henry V is leaving, because he was doing the new factions and new buildings... If he's leaving and returning in August, I want you to help me do the new factions....

I am looking for a map, will be delivered soon.... It's gonna be a typical map, found on the net or in the books... I have found one but it's quite small.... Hopefully I'm gonna find a new and bigger and better map....

Cheers!

[King Henry V]

Gents, there's a problem with that map...

It's modern. Won't do for the vast majority of what you need it to.
For example, modern Croatia is much larger than medieval Croatia was...

I'd like to learn how to do maps and units (I can do startpos in my sleep now). Gnome editor is one thing, but unit graphics is something else. If somebody were willing to coach me, I could help you with a map, since i have the background, and it's a good exercise for my own stuff.

I realise that, it was just the intended geographical scope of the mod.

[King Henry V]

Here's a map for the historical situation of the Empire as of 1204 and the capture and sack of Constantinople by "crusaders".

[CountMRVHS]

Yes; I can probably help with the factions. I could help adding new factions or maybe even contributing ideas about factions (which ones to include, where they should be, etc.), depending on how far along you are already. Let me know what you'd like me to do and I'll see if it can get done.

One question: I assume this mod will be for the VI expansion, right?

[King Henry V]

Yes it will be for VI.

[King Henry V]

Map of Europe 1087

[CountMRVHS]

Hey guys,

It looks like by the end of this week we may have our Crusader States map all sorted out, ready to send to Fader_It. If you want, it may be a map you can use for your mod as well, in the way we had talked about earlier. Minister Of Fear just gave us a time frame for getting his half of the map finished. I'll let you know when things are wrapping up so we can share information and hopefully keep both projects going!

CountMRVHS

[King Henry V]

Hi guys! Just dropping in to say hello and see how the mods doing.

[Krusader]

So...how are you going to represent the many mercenaries in the Byzantine armies?

How is the pronoiai system going to be included?

In 1204, will the Despotate of Epirus, Empire of Nicaea and Empire of Trebizond be playable factions?

PS: I've written a 30-page thesis on the Fourth Crusade and have read Geoffrey de Villehardouin & Robert de Claris texts about it many, many times, and excerpts from Nicetas Choniates. If you need any help with the Fourth Crusade and Latin Empire, just tell me.

[King Henry V]

I think all of the factions will be playable. Thanks for the offer, Krusader.

[King Henry V]

So...how are you going to represent the many mercenaries in the Byzantine armies?

How is the pronoiai system going to be included?

I'm not surehow the pronoiai system will be done. What we might do is make mercenaries actually cheaper than recruiting normal soldiers. However, instead of building a tavern, where the recruiting roster can vary at times, perhaps they'll be a building which with other structures, alows you to recruit mercenaries all the time (the mercenaries being the Varangian Guard, Frankish mercenaries, stepped horse archers, norman mercenaries etc)

[CountMRVHS]

Yes, that's a good idea. The only thing different about these "mercenaries" would be their constant availability. And their build times. What about putting the build time for these troops down to zero, so you can recruit many of them quickly, like regular mercs?

As I understand it, the Pronoiai system was basically military service in exchange for land, right? So maybe certain troops can be attached to farming upgrades. A 20% farm upgrade can "train" a certain kind of troops, a 40% upgrade gets you a different kind, etc etc.

[edyzmedieval]

You are right Count. The Pronoiai( actually Proniai) system was the feudal system, the only difference was the name.

About the mercenaries, we will think of that. Historically, mercenaries were experienced and powerful soldiers who were disbanded from the armies. So, they were available immediately.

Also, question: Do you want to make the new factions?!

[edyzmedieval]

We are in great need of a graphics expert to make our campaign map....
Those who know very well, please leave a message......

[Russ Mitchell]

Unfortunately, I am not that man.
I am, however, in possession of some really GOOD maps of the balkans and adjoining territries, that would allow much richer gameplay in the European sphere, if anybody's interested. I'd have to sketch the territories, of course, but it would definitely be a more sophisticated map than the above... would include

a) Hungary (Sajo river battle, the Byz spanked the Magyars bad)
b) Oltenia and Muntenia (eventually became Wallachia)
c) Serbia and Bosnia, including Rascia, and the city-Republic of Dubrovnik)
d) Hungarian banates (Usora, Soli, Macva, Branicevo, Kucevo, Severin) (Croatia is a sort of non-issue for the Byzantines unless you drop way earlier in history)
e) Bulgaria and the Pricipality of Vidin and Dobrudja
f) "European" Byzantium Proper (Epeiros, Macedonia, Thessaly, Aitolia, Peloponnesos, Thessalonike, Western Thrace, Eastern Thrace, Constantinople)
g) Areas that could be put in w/o too much effort (Euboia, Boiotia, Attike)

That's potentially 28 territories to march back and forth through, more than that if the map is large enough to make specific strategic places like Ohrid their own territories.