Anti-Semitism in Canada

[lars573]

We'd like to think so. Whenever I see skinheads with nazi tatoos I always feel like asking them. "Didn't my father kill all you idiots in WWII?"

Shmucks.

Our biker gangs, at least here in Quebec, are gonzo maniacs too. The bloody government out to put out hit squads on these bozos. I can't believe we let them run amuck.

Yeah, try to explain to a yankee that here in Canada all our organized crime is run by the hell's angels, and they look at you like you have horns.

[Beirut]

Are "your" bikers out east as violent and omnipresent as they are here?

I swear, for years they ran the whole province as a defato government. Nobody would dare touch them. The cops wouldn't go near them.

Finally the cops formed the Wolverine squad (cute) and went after them in a giant springtime series of raids. They built a huge armoured courthouse and tried about a dozen of the top Hell's Angels. It was a complete farce. Most pled guilty to jaywalking and got very light sentences. Those who did have to do real time are simply running the show from prison.

In the end, the Hell's Angels were weakened, but they still run a huge part of the Quebec bar scene and do pretty much anything they want.

[lars573]

Are "your" bikers out east as violent and omnipresent as they are here?

I swear, for years they ran the whole province as a defato government. Nobody would dare touch them. The cops wouldn't go near them.

Finally the cops formed the Wolverine squad (cute) and went after them in a giant springtime series of raids. They built a huge armoured courthouse and tried about a dozen of the top Hell's Angels. It was a complete farce. Most pled guilty to jaywalking and got very light sentences. Those who did have to do real time are simply running the show from prison.

In the end, the Hell's Angels were weakened, but they still run a huge part of the Quebec bar scene and do pretty much anything they want.

They never got the chance. When the local cops and the mounties got wind that the angels were moving east they leaned on them pretty hard right out of the gate. The reason we have an organized crime squad in HRM now is because the Hell's angels bought 2 bars in Halifax-Dartmouth in the late 80's. Now their "club house" has been shut down for years, and all the property they bought has been seized and auctioned off.

[Watchman]

Actual anti-Semitism has for fairly obvious reasons been really unpopular in Europe for the past fifty-odd years. Particularly in Germany. Thus far every single German I've ever seen confronted with the issue has adopted such a meek, apologizing tone about the whole thing that I've almost felt like shaking them and yelling "ferchrissakes it was your bloody *grandparents* - *you* don't need to flagellate over it!"

These days Jews are pretty much OK in most circles. If nothing else there's the more recent immigrants, refugees et all to distrust - and they're generally a lot easier to pick out too.

Zionists, however, aren't. And down in the Middle East there's an entire state built on that ideology. Europeans, who spent a century introducing each other to the niceties of national exclusivism, may perhaps be excuse dif they're not terribly keen on a political entity which pretty much declares its adherence to that principle in its constitution. (That, by all accounts, our news reporting on the Israel-Palestine issue is pretty unbiased by world standards - as US news are distinctly pro and Muslim news anti Israel - may also have a bit to do with it.)

That Israel sits down there is a fact, and one that isn't going to go away. I don't think it is particularly liked around here, but then again neither does about anyone who thinks things through call for its abolition either. Now Jews are one thing; the state of Israel is another; and Zionists a third. The first most people are okay with; the second most quietly accept as a fait accompli, albeit reluctantly; but the third nobody has any duty to like.

Zionism is an ideology, neither equal with nor confined to either Jews or Israel. And ideologies are fair game.

Now, for the past five or so years - basically since the last genuinely promising round of peace talks down there fell through - people here have been watching depressingly similar news coming out of there. And, as rank apologism hasn't been in the agenda (and back in 2000 an American Jew who'd recently been down there or so told me it very much is in US news), they've by and large added up the casualty figures, resources and actions of both sides, and the majority of those who now bother caring about the issue seem to have arrived at the conclusion they like the Israeli side rather less.

And through the unfortunate way human mind tends to make associations, that has eroded the standing of Jews in the eyes of the general public. It's not antisemitism, really; just a sort of ...disinterest. Back when the antisemitic outbursts happened in France it wasn't like people cheered them or anything (although I have no difficulties imagining many Muslims in the run-down ghettoes actually did)- it's just that neither did they react with the sort of outrage such incidents caused only a few years earlier.

Of course, the habit Israeli politicos and Zionist apologists have of crying loud "ANTI-SEMITE!!!!" about every time someone openly criticizes Israeli policies doesn't help any. Know the story about the boy who yelled wolf...?

As a side note, that's also what mr. Putschi does if a quick skimming is anything to judge by. He doesn't say it straight, of course, he's obviously not that stupid; but it is very clearly implied from almost the very beginning that "anti-Zionist" = "anti-Semite".

Plus he's playing the martyr card, by what I can see. I'm normally fairly tolerant of it when ethnic minorities do that, but given that the things are a fair bit different out where the root of the problem lies (Israel is pretty much a regional military and economic powerhouse and top dog; the Palestinians have squat) I'm a bit leery of it in this case.

Although I will give you that it is rather decidedly unfair if Jews abroad, who quite often haven't anything to do with the whole issue and would like to see it either satisficatorily resolved or disappear as much as the next guy over, get into trouble thanks to what the zealots in Israel do.

[PanzerJaeger]

Now, for the past five or so years - basically since the last genuinely promising round of peace talks down there fell through - people here have been watching depressingly similar news coming out of there. And, as rank apologism hasn't been in the agenda (and back in 2000 an American Jew who'd recently been down there or so told me it very much is in US news), they've by and large added up the casualty figures, resources and actions of both sides, and the majority of those who now bother caring about the issue seem to have arrived at the conclusion they like the Israeli side rather less.

Where do you live, because that is most definately not the case in many parts of the world.

[Watchman]

Where do you live, because that is most definately not the case in many parts of the world.

Helsinki, Finland. I added it to my info just to avoid having to explain it in the future.

Now, I've not the slightest doubt that what I said may well not be the case universally; but then again I was only talking about Europe and that in rather general, "this is my impression" sort of terms, something I did try to communicate in the general tone of the post.

However, would you like to name a few of those "many parts" past the US which I've already addressed ?

[PanzerJaeger]

Helsinki, Finland. I added it to my info just to avoid having to explain it in the future.

Oh, well your comments about the US media being pro-israeli make more sense now. May i suggest that you take a look at your own media before making such assumptions.

In any event, there are non-zionists who support Israel in Canada, Japan, and Australia. Im sure there are more, but I really cant speak for the general opinion of people in Cambodia.

[Beirut]

Watchman,

Ah yes, Mr. Prutschi. He was in Montreal last winter giving a talk and he made it very, very clear that not only is anti-Zionism the same an anti-Semitism, but any and all criticisms of Israeli policy is nothing but a convenient smokescreen to hide the speakers anti-Semitism.

This guy is a real SOB. He is the Joseph McCarthy of the Israeli lobby. If you speak, he will accuse. And he's very good at it. He is a blackmailing, blacklisting, SOB and should be countered at every step. The Montreal Gazette, our major newspaper, printed a letter I wrote after this bonehead came to town. I was happy to take a piece out of him. The basic idea was that we are not sheep to be herded by his threats. And that's all Mr. Prutschi has - threats.

"If you speak I will accuse."

My dearest Mr. Putschi: shove it!

[caesar44]

Watchman,

Ah yes, Mr. Prutschi. He was in Montreal last winter giving a talk and he made it very, very clear that not only is anti-Zionism the same an anti-Semitism, but any and all criticisms of Israeli policy is nothing but a convenient smokescreen to hide the speakers anti-Semitism.

This guy is a real SOB. He is the Joseph McCarthy of the Israeli lobby. If you speak, he will accuse. And he's very good at it. He is a blackmailing, blacklisting, SOB and should be countered at every step. The Montreal Gazette, our major newspaper, printed a letter I wrote after this bonehead came to town. I was happy to take a piece out of him. The basic idea was that we are not sheep to be herded by his threats. And that's all Mr. Prutschi has - threats.

"If you speak I will accuse."

My dearest Mr. Putschi: shove it!

1. "This guy is a real SOB"
2. He is ... SOB"
3. "shove it!"

Aha , forum rules ? nehhh
Please continue

[Beirut]

1. "This guy is a real SOB"
2. He is ... SOB"
3. "shove it!"

Aha , forum rules ? nehhh
Please continue

As Mr. Prutschi is one of us, and holds a very important position in a Canadian public organization, the way I see it I'm allowed to stick it to him.

Likewise, as Ariel Sharon is one of your guys, and a public figure, you also have the right to call him an SOB and tell him to shove it.

Although my language could use a tad more eloquence I'm sure, why do you object about what I say concerning Mr. Prutschi? I was postively friendly compared to what... others (cough), have written in these threads in the last day or two. There was some mighty nasty name calling by... others (cough), and I think I have done well not to sink to... their, (cough-hack-wheeze) level.