Hobilars Rock

[King Kurt]

I am currently playing the English, early on hard. Last night Brittany decided to rebel so I sent 2 Hobilar units and 1 peasant to sort them out. The panel came up as roughly equal forces, so I thought I would play it out. Terrain was hilly and I went looking for the Froggy rebels, expecting a few peasants and archers etc. To my horror, the rebels were 2 units of feudal foot knights and i of mounted feudal knights. I led them round for a bit to tire them out then put the peasants in the way of mounted knights. They routed fairly quickly and the knights went off on a spree chasing the routing peasants. I had split the 2 foot units up so i charged my 2 Hobilars in, down hill - 1 in front, 1 in the flank. The foot knights got cut up and routed, I pulled the Hobilars back, then repeated on the other foot knights. By now the mounted knights were coming back so I led them off again, until I was on top of a nice hill. As the knights struggled up, I charged down - again, 1 in front, 1 in the flank and cut them up as well - result, all 3 rebel units well and truly stuffed.

Later on the same evening, 2 Hobilar units took out some Royal knights, so they had a really good evening.

In the guide section, several people seem to turn their noses up at these units, but they are some of the only cavalry around early on - and they are cheap, so you can have a few units and at 40 strong they can take a few losses.

[edyzmedieval]

I know...

They are cheap and plentiful units... Better than Hobilars are the Alan Mercenary Cavalry.... They(Alan's) are the most powerful light cavalry in the game!!!(I'm talking about them because I modded the game so the Byz and Turks can have them, Byz are my fav faction)

Flank attacks are devastating with light cavalry because they have powerful charge and they are very fast moving....

[antisocialmunky]

Jinettes are better IMHO. They're the most flexible cavalry as they can nail people with Javelins and have the same stats as Hobliars.

[King Kurt]

The french can have Hobilars apparently, but the AI doesn't seem to build them - any ideas?

Agree about the Jinettes, but the Spanish have to take on the Alohmads, so they need some sort of light cav.

[edyzmedieval]

Check the availability with the Dragon MTW Editor...

It helps...

[littlebktruck]

Jinettes are better IMHO. They're the most flexible cavalry as they can nail people with Javelins and have the same stats as Hobliars.

The only problem with Jinettes is that their charge bonus (2) is quite a bit lower than other early cavalry (hobilars have 6, mounted sergeants have 8). Other than that, though, the are fine in combat, have use of the javelins, and are fast even for cavalry.

[edyzmedieval]

Mounted Sergeants are powerful and very fast cavalry...... Jinettes are good IMHO.....

[_Aetius_]

Id say Jinetes are more medium cavalry than light to be honest.

Alans are great light cavalry that is true, more than anything because they have good attack and decent morale, hobilars are OK but thats about it, they scream middle of the road.

[edyzmedieval]

I usually have 2 units of light cavalry in my army(Alans) so I can make swift flank attacks to harass the enemy before I come with infantry and heavy cavalry... In combination with the Alans I use Trebizond Archers... Deadly combination along with Kataphraktoi to destroy the enemy...

[Procrustes]

Hi,

Here are some stats for some of the more common light and missile cav, if that helps:

Horse archers
Charge 2 Attack -1 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale –1 Cost 250 Support cost 40

Mounted crossbowmen
Charge 2 Attack 0 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 2 Cost 300 Support cost 50

Spanish Jinetes
Charge 2 Attack 2 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 2 Cost 250 Support cost 50

Hobilars
Charge 6 Attack 1 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 0 Cost 125 Support cost 40

Mounted sergeants
Charge 8 Attack 2 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 2 Cost 175 Support cost 50

Horsemen (VI)
Charge 6 Attack 3 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 175 Support cost 45

Viking raider cavalry (VI)
Charge 4 Attack -1 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 0 Cost 150 Support cost 40

Steppe cavalry
Charge 6 Attack 2 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 0 Cost 150 Support cost 40

Saharan cavalry
Charge 4 Attack 2 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 0 Cost 125 Support cost 40

Byzantine cavalry
Charge 2 Attack 3 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 400 Support cost 85

Mamluk horse archers
Charge 2 Attack 3 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 375 Support cost 70

Turcoman horsemen
Charge 2 Attack 1 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale –1 Cost 300 Support cost 40

Turcopole
Charge 2 Attack -1 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 0 Cost 300 Support cost 40

Faris (VI)
Charge 4 Attack 3 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 375 Support cost 70

Szekely (VI)
Charge 4 Attack 3 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 24, 26 Morale 4 Cost 375 Support cost 50

I like hobilars, but I switch to Mounted Sgts when I can. Playing as other factions you get great discounts on mounted archers - I use them as light cav after I use up the arrows. They take a lot more losses at first, but if you keep merging the valored remanants you can end up with some killer cav. Same for mountex x-bows.


(EDIT - added steppe cav)
(EDIT II - added saharan cav--szekely)

[antisocialmunky]

Jinettes are fast for light melee cavalry.

Charge doesn't really matter beyond the last impact so Jinette and Hobs are essentially the same in melee.

If you're going to milk the Hobs for their charge, I'd pull them back and send them in.

[littlebktruck]

Jinettes are fast for light melee cavalry.

Charge doesn't really matter beyond the last impact so Jinette and Hobs are essentially the same in melee.

If you're going to milk the Hobs for their charge, I'd pull them back and send them in.

That's true. Since I don't tend to have the luxury of sending cavalry at engaged units and then withdrawing them, it probably matters lest for a player like me.

[Martok]

Ah, Jinettes, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways.....

I love having them in the Early period. They don't really form the bulk of my Spanish armies per se, but they have often proved to be the decisive factor in many of my battles--particularly against the Almohads, as King Kurt pointed out earlier. With their excellent speed, well-rounded attack/defense abilities, and combined with the fact their javelins get a bonus versus armoured troops, they're easily my favorite light cav in the game. I can live with Jinettes' lower charge bonus, as it's not like I don't know better than to send them head-on into heavy infantry/cav anyway.

After Jinettes, Alan mercs are probably my 2nd-favorite light cav--fast and well-rounded, although they seem to tire a bit easily.

[King Kurt]

Looking at the figures, it is the good charge figure that makes hobilars so good. As I said above, my hobilar's heroics were based on tiring the heavier cavalary out by pulling them all round the battlefield then pinning with 1 unit, preferably downhill then charging in with the second unit in the flank or rear. Good Heavens - that sounds seriously like historic tactics - what ever next!!

[Eternal Champion]

During my English campaign I used mostly Hobbies with great success in the desert fighting the Eggy's and Almos. The 125 florin cost makes them a great bargin for that strong charge stat.

Having said that I'm currently in the middle of my first Spanish campaign and Jinettes have become my favorite light cavalry. In early they just plain rock. They almost single handedly cleared the Iberian Peninsula and Morocco of Almos. The Almos have now counter attacked Morocco several times and 5 units of Jinettes have sallied from the defensive line of spears and routed the entire Almo army every time. These assaults usually include the remaining Royal Line and they just get decimated by the Jinettes javelins, simply awesome when used correctly. My other campaigns are usually dominated by Mounted Sergeants with the same irresistible charge as Knights, bolstered with some Steppe Light Cav as they have that same blazing speed as Jinettes. I like to call it thunder and lighting. During my English campaign I used mostly Hobbies with great success in the desert fighting the Eggy's and Almos. The 125 florin cost makes them a great bargin for that strong charge stat.

[antisocialmunky]

They'll kill Knights from behind in melee if you can pin them. Very useful.

[professorspatula]

Hobilars are pretty useful at the beginning of the campaign I suppose. You have to love those Jinettes though - fantastic speed, and javelins to spear the enemy from a distance, although if I recall, I usually have no patience and charge them straight in the rear of the enemy instead.

I like horsemen though, for some kind of cult reason. Especially in the Viking Campaign. With upgrades and bonus valour, they pretty much dominate much of the battlefield, mopping up hundreds of routers in any one battle. They even give the Royal cavalry a good beating in the right circumstances.

[Roark]

(Eng./Early/Hard)

Jinettes are a massive pain for me at the moment because of their speed. The only apparent way to get the little bastards is to ride right around them and pincer them between some infantry and horse. Otherwise they just scarper as soon as I give the command to attack them.

[Papewaio]

Hobilars are easy to get and cheap to field. Support costs are relatively high, but used with spearmen you have a cheap hammer and anvil force.

[Sensei Warrior]

You know what's really nice? An army with both hobilars and jinnettes. Oooh i just shudder thinking about it.

[_Aetius_]

Jinetes are easy to deal with, aslong as you have archers, the welsh Longbowman is devastating, simply shield your longbowmen/archers with billmen etc and fire away, so few jinetes will survive that the rest are of little consequence.

[ichi]

One problem with Jinettes is they only have four javelins, and their short throwing range they can get tied up in melee pretty easy. They are great against heavy armor when they are behind a line of infantry in tight places, and do well one on one out in the open, but they can be a full load to micromanage.

Hobbies are OK for skirmishing with pavs and archers, chasing routers, and flanking, but they just aren't fast enough. They need a high star gen or they need to be like V4 to really be good fighters.

Alans are the best (by far) light cav. Pick up every Alan merc unit you can find. Steppe Cav are also great mercs, especially useful in the desert. Procrustes made a great list but left Saharan Cav off.

IMHO the best light cav are the better cav archers, Byz Cav, Szeks, Faris, even pumped up Turcomans and Turcopoles.

ichi

[Fabolous]

I like hobilars. At the begining of games they can cause alot of early infantry to rout, then run them down, and they can also kill most enemy archers. They are not so great when facing other cav, or against high morale infantry, but hey, they are cheap and effective as an early cavalry unit.

[Procrustes]

Procrustes made a great list but left Saharan Cav off.

I added them and a few others - just for you.

(I started with a short list, it gets a bit much after a while.)

IMHO the best light cav are the better cav archers, Byz Cav, Szeks, Faris, even pumped up Turcomans and Turcopoles.

ichi

I tend to agree - you get a better charge out of the light cav, but I get more use and more kills out of the various missile cav. I like the speed a mounted missile has and I like to engage them in a charge once the enemy has been peppered and flanked. Mine tend to take a lot of casualties at first but gain valor rapidly.

[Eternal Champion]

The only thing that Jinettes have that the other HA's don't is AP. In early those 4 javs each will just melt a unit of Knights down to nothing in no time flat. All HA have to be micro-managed and yes do to their short range Jinettes are at another level. But, in that early period there isn't a better armour killer in the game IMHO, because once they route their opponent nothing can get away from them do to their blazing speed.

[Procrustes]

The only thing that Jinettes have that the other HA's don't is AP.

Mounted xbows are AP, too - though their slow rate of fire and inability to arch presents it's own difficulties. Mounted xbows are also nice because they are more armored than most other HA's - last a little longer in a melee.

[Roark]

@ Aetius

That's fine unless your enemy is rotating mobs of Jinettes and targeting your (slower) knights. Longbowmen run out of ammo very quickly and they are much slower than Jinettes in withdrawing from battle to allow room for reinforcement archers. As Eternal Champion said, they are nasty in Early, and they love killing impetuous knights and routing infantry.

[Sensei Warrior]

Jinetes are easy to deal with, aslong as you have archers, the welsh Longbowman is devastating, simply shield your longbowmen/archers with billmen etc and fire away, so few jinetes will survive that the rest are of little consequence.

Yes that is very true, but I typically don't waste Jinettes on archers and billmen. I have other units to take care of them, while the Jinnies do their thing against armor. If I need to take care of archers with jinnies I lock up their blockers, in this case the billmen, flank with jinnies and charge them, not shoot them.

Of course I would be even happier in early to use hobilars in place of the jinnies in the above scenario. They are fast and can usually break a thin line of archers, if they charge from the rear. If it works but destroys the hobbies I believe its still cost effective

But by the high period (when longbowman and billmen are available) the hobilars have lost some of their shine. The Hobbies and Jinnies greatest asset is they are typically available from the first year of the game, for the factions that can build them. Anything better than them is gonna take awhile to build up to, meaning you have an ace in your hand.

[Russ Mitchell]

SW said:
Of course I would be even happier in early to use hobilars in place of the jinnies in the above scenario. They are fast and can usually break a thin line of archers, if they charge from the rear. If it works but destroys the hobbies I believe its still cost effective
---------------------------------
And *this* is why the units desperately need to be rebalanced. Light infantry is far too powerful. A unit of hobilars should CRUSH any line of archers they can catch.

Sorry, just had to vent...

[Martok]

And *this* is why the units desperately need to be rebalanced. Light infantry is far too powerful. A unit of hobilars should CRUSH any line of archers they can catch.

Sorry, just had to vent...

Hmm, I guess I've never really noticed major problems with light infantry being overpowered. Is there any particular example(s) where you've seen them "over-effective" (for lack of a better term) in battle? And just out of curiosity, what do you define as light infantry--gallowglasses, highland clansmen, ghazis?