Multiplayer standards

[Orda Khan]

Hello Khelvan,
Whereas I agree that 12,500 is a denarii level that some players use, ( the game seems to play well at this level ) it is far from being a 'standard'. From what I see there is no standard, with 1,000,000 denarii games being hosted as often as 60,000 or any other amount.

In MTW days there were basically two schools, one for 10,000 and the other for 15,000. There were of course the 99,999 'big mani' games but thankfully they were not the norm.

With the initial MP problems associated with RTW a lot of disillusioned vets gave up on the game which has only compounded the 'standard' level.

7,000 denarii ( IMO ) was an interesting level gameplaywise ( providing honourable play was undertaken ) but there is still the underlying desire of the masses to want to field only elite units. This dilema will still exist with EB for MP. If you set the standard at 10,000 denarii I can assure you there will be 1,000,000 denarii 3v3 situations. ( This is why the 'vet exodus' was more damaging than the MP problems that exist with RTW ) As you can see by some replies, certain rules have been introduced to try to remedy these issues. The Code of Honour movement was created for the benefit of those who prefer tactical, enjoyable battles over Praetorian cav blobs. With more players playing this way I think the 'issue' would have been less of an issue.

EB has removed the nonsense from the game and creating a standard denarii level would be relatively easy. The hard part I fear, will be getting players to use this standard now that things are so way off track.

For simplicity sake I would go for 10,000 or 15,000 ( purely because the increments are easier to work out )

........Orda

[Puzz3D]

Adjusting denari level can't fix several gameplay issues such as cav beating phalanx head on, excessive speed, excessive delay in response to move commands, creating superunits by overlapping, the runthrough exploit on spears, unbalanced units such as desert cav and overpowered artillery.

[Orda Khan]

Adjusting denari level can't fix several gameplay issues such as cav beating phalanx head on, excessive speed, excessive delay in response to move commands, creating superunits by overlapping, the runthrough exploit on spears, unbalanced units such as desert cav and overpowered artillery.

Oddly enough when I tested 4 cataphracts against 4 silver shield pikes, the conclusion was much less one sided. The spears were set on phalanx formation and nothing else. One unit of cats routed in a very short time, another was reduced to very few that also routed and the other two cats eventually won. The whole test concluded with only 32 cataphracts total remaining. Now I would agree that the spears should win this but the result was far from overwhelming and I think the guy using pikes would have turned his unit that routed the cats in on the flank of the next? This would have produced an entirely different outcome IMO.

Basically all of these issues are irrelevant in Europa Barbarorum

........Orda

[Mongoose]

i agree. Stacking and small battle maps might be a problem though.


Too bad that SJ's method would take too long to implement.

[Puzz3D]

Oddly enough when I tested 4 cataphracts against 4 silver shield pikes, the conclusion was much less one sided.

Did you use the cataphract's secondary weapon? It gives the cataphracts more of an advantage since their secondary weapon is better than their primary weapon.

Basically all of these issues are irrelevant in Europa Barbarorum

That's true, but the vets left because you can't correct the gameplay just by changing denari level. That was my point.

[jacked]

Did you use the cataphract's secondary weapon? It's very onesided when you do, but I don't have the results readily available.

Didn't know the cataphracts had secondary weapons

[CBR]

Several cavalry units have a secondary weapon that has higher attack rating than the spear/lance. As a quick rule just use Alt click to attack when using cavalry as its either the same as the lance or better.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

Didn't know the cataphracts had secondary weapons

Good luck playing online then. They have a very effective armor piercing mace as a secondary weapon. Play Samurai Wars for MTW/VI. It doesn't have tricky stuff like secondary weapons. Samutrai Wars is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).

[CBR]

Yeah depending on the armour of the unit they are fighting they could have up to 8 more in attack when using their mace. Very powerful indeed.


CBR

[Orda Khan]

Did you use the cataphract's secondary weapon? It gives the cataphracts more of an advantage since their secondary weapon is better than their primary weapon.

Yes

That's true, but the vets left because you can't correct the gameplay just by changing denari level. That was my point.

Leaving the MP lobby completely will not solve anything.

.......Orda

[Puzz3D]

Leaving the MP lobby completely will not solve anything.

It solves the frustration of playing the game the way it is. The players who can see the flaws in the basic gameplay aren't going to hang around for a year or more to see if CA will adjust it. Mods might make the gameplay acceptable to veteran players, but none of the mods are ready.

I ran the cataphract vs silvershield pikemen replay that I have in RTW v1.2, and the silvershields got wiped out by a frontal charge. It's 4 cataphracts charging 4 silver shield pikemen who are in guard mode 8 men deep. The silver shields lost 121, 121, 120 and 94 men. The cataphracts lost 42, 31, 35 and 39 men. That's a 3 to 1 kill rate in favor of the cataphracts which are about half the size of the pike units.

[jacked]

isn't the cataphracts scondary weapon its sword