Why Would Anyone Have Kids?

[KukriKhan]

When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.

Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Wow, and here I thought a bunch of ghosts had come back to the Org. What would have really nailed it would have been resurrecting it on Father's Day.

Nice to see you back, Godfather. Hope it isn't too much of a fluke -- you were part of the charm of the Backroom when I joined.

A lot of other names from times past have wandered into the Dojo II thread -- people with 199X in their join-dates even.

[a completely inoffensive name]

This wave of the old members scare me. Although I never take into account how old someone is when I debate/argue. I've learned that age is not indicative of wisdom.

Anyway, back on topic, I personally don't plan on having kids until I'm at least 28 or 29. I want a built up career, a solid financial foundation to fund the kids properly, and life experience from a decade of enjoying life before I feel I would be ready to properly nurture and raise a kid.

[Cute Wolf]

This wave of the old members scare me. Although I never take into account how old someone is when I debate/argue. I've learned that age is not indicative of wisdom.

Anyway, back on topic, I personally don't plan on having kids until I'm at least 28 or 29. I want a built up career, a solid financial foundation to fund the kids properly, and life experience from a decade of enjoying life before I feel I would be ready to properly nurture and raise a kid.

well, maybe I'm the one who planned to getting married as soon as I finish the doctorate degree, or even sooner.....
oh yeah, it will be sooner when my parents decide that I should bring a wife when I was studying aboard in Europe... (typical Chinese conservative)

[rory_20_uk]

When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.

Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.

When women are young, life is good. Go anywhere, do anything. Have a great time. Being female means male attention almost without effort. For the truly mercenary there are older men who are married.

Kids? Plenty of time... Focus on fun / career.

Then age ticks by. Often it is the 30th that makes many settle down into realising that they have to meet Mr Right, have a relationship and then a family. Risk of Down's: 1 in 1,000. By 35, 1 in 500. By 40 1 in 150. Not to mention falling fertility, and other risk factors.
Men are also, damn them, so superficial. What was great as a 20 year old isn't so great when you're competing against 20 year olds.

Men have the ability to have children into their 60's, if not a hell of a lot later. Impotence used to put an end to it can now be overcome. Deep down there is not the biological clock getting louder and louder. Being an older man can also be viewed as attractive. Women place far more on money (security) than men do - in fact men are unhappy as a rule when they earn less than their wives / partners. Having children late shows you are fertile, not a sick old crone. Having a wife more junior is also more acceptable.

[KukriKhan]

Kids? Plenty of time... Focus on fun / career.

Then age ticks by...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=36838497

[lars573]

When (if) you hook up with a female of the species, she will (eventually) explain it to you (all you non-Dads, not just PJ). Many of them (women) start out saying the same thing, for the same reasons - and they're good reasons; logical, rational ones. By the time you and she pass about age 25, if some accident doesn't happen first, the urge will strike: first her, then you. When you hold L'il Junior on his date of birth, you'll know "Why Would Anyone Have Kids?", and your whole world will change.

Free Tip: Fatherhood is OK; though lot's o'work with very little recognition. Grand-fatherhood, however, is something to look forward to. Trust me.

It should be noted that these are mere estimates. My sister-in-law is almost 23 and she's had baby fever since she married my brother, 2 years ago (and she's pregnant). My actual sister wanted to have kids at 25. She'll be 25 soon and she's got 2.

[Don Corleone]

Nice to see you back, Godfather. Hope it isn't too much of a fluke -- you were part of the charm of the Backroom when I joined.

A lot of other names from times past have wandered into the Dojo II thread -- people with 199X in their join-dates even.

It's the very subject matter of this topic, the presence of my 4 year old and 2 year old miracles that requires my absence. Happy to sneak in when I can though.

I'll have to check out the DojoII thread. Too bad Creative Assembly isn't living up to their name and is re-treading all the old titles. Couldn't they just watch Ultimate Warrior for some ideas?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I hate how people think if you don't want children, you must be a bad person, irresponsible adult,etc....

Look at my Aunt and Uncle. They in their mid 50's, hardworking, don't have kids, because they just.... didn't want them. They not irresponsible, are they? Nope.


I can't stand the thought of having children.

[Megas Methuselah]

I can't stand the thought of having children.

Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either.

[Beskar]

You live on through your children, as such, having children is a step to becoming immortal.

Otherways include doing something so horrible, no one will ever forget you.

[rory_20_uk]

Fritzel took the logical conclusion: have children with your children! Further generations, and no one is likely to forget that any time soon.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yeah, if all they did was play computer games all day, I wouldn't be able to stand it, either.

If my children just played video games, I would be SOOOOOOOOOOO happy. The perfect scenario for me would be children who are intelligent, work hard at their studies and don't subscribe to raves, parties, drinking, and ughh... grinding.

[Andres]

My wife is now 6 and a half month pregnant.

A while ago, I held my hand on her belly and suddenly, I felt something kicking. It was amazing. Nowadays, the baby responds to my voice very well. When I talk to my wife's belly (yes, talking to a belly looks ridiculous; it looks even more ridiculous when you make silly sounds) while holding my hand on it, I get rewarded with lots of kicks (or punches). It's a fantastic experience and I could spend hours doing just that. Can't wait to hold the little one.

Three weeks ago, we had a 3D echo and we could see the face of our child. Amazing what modern technique can do nowadays

[Beskar]

My wife is now 6 and a half month pregnant.

A while ago, I held my hand on her belly and suddenly, I felt something kicking. It was amazing. Nowadays, the baby responds to my voice very well. When I talk to my wife's belly (yes, talking to a belly looks ridiculous; it looks even more ridiculous when you make silly sounds) while holding my hand on it, I get rewarded with lots of kicks (or punches). It's a fantastic experience and I could spend hours doing just that. Can't wait to hold the little one.

Three weeks ago, we had a 3D echo and we could see the face of our child. Amazing what modern technique can do nowadays

I always found that babies always look like bald miniature sumo wrestlers.

[rory_20_uk]

Until it's your own. Other babies still look odd, but your own is a small angel (possibly not when going puce from yelling...)

Not convinced about 3d USS scans. Some reports say that the energy they require could be dangerous. Since they served no prognostic use, We went with the 2D ones.

[Andres]

Until it's your own. Other babies still look odd, but your own is a small angel (possibly not when going puce from yelling...)

Not convinced about 3d USS scans. Some reports say that the energy they require could be dangerous. Since they served no prognostic use, We went with the 2D ones.

I'm not going to argue with the doc; he should know what he's doing

3D echo's are very common here.

[rory_20_uk]

I think it's my paranoia more than anything else.

I viewed the risk:benefit as tiny:none and hence didn't do it.

If there was any proven harm beyond theoretical risk it'd have been uniformly scrapped.

[Fragony]

Love kids. I am really good with them as well, bit of a child myself. I will certainly hatch some offspring but not now, 40 or so seems a good age to start considering it. But first I have to find someone willing to sleep with me.

[Strike For The South]

as much as i would love to jetset across the world having crazy sex with my insanely hot wife. I have resolved the fact that one day I will wake up, be 40 and wonder what the hell these tiny midgets are doing jumping on me.....maybe not as fun as sex on a bed of cavair and romanion orphans but probably more fufilling

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Here's another article which I don't think has been posted:

http://nymag.com/print/?/news/features/67024/

"All joy and no fun"

Very well written, I think it brings up the key point:

This finding seems significant. Technically, if parenting makes you unhappy, you should feel better if you’re spared the task of doing it. But if happiness is measured by our own sense of agency and meaning, then noncustodial parents lose. They’re robbed of something that gives purpose and reward.

When I mention this to Daniel Gilbert, he hardly disputes that meaning is important. But he does wonder how prominently it should figure into people’s decisions to have kids. “When you pause to think what children mean to you, of course they make you feel good,” he says. “The problem is, 95 percent of the time, you’re not thinking about what they mean to you. You’re thinking that you have to take them to piano lessons. So you have to think about which kind of happiness you’ll be consuming most often. Do you want to maximize the one you experience almost all the time”—moment-to-moment happiness—“or the one you experience rarely?”

Which is fair enough. But for many of us, purpose is happiness—particularly those of us who find moment-to-moment happiness a bit elusive to begin with. Martin Seligman, the positive-psychology pioneer who is, famously, not a natural optimist, has always taken the view that happiness is best defined in the ancient Greek sense: leading a productive, purposeful life. And the way we take stock of that life, in the end, isn’t by how much fun we had, but what we did with it. (Seligman has seven children.)

“I think this boils down to a philosophical question, rather than a psychological one,” says Gilovich. “Should you value moment-to-moment happiness more than retrospective evaluations of your life?” He says he has no answer for this, but the example he offers suggests a bias. He recalls watching TV with his children at three in the morning when they were sick. “I wouldn’t have said it was too fun at the time,” he says. “But now I look back on it and say, ‘Ah, remember the time we used to wake up and watch cartoons?’ ” The very things that in the moment dampen our moods can later be sources of intense gratification, nostalgia, delight.

But I'm not quite sure the question is really moment-to-moment happiness vs retrospective satisfaction. Our beliefs about what gives our life purpose are a huge part of this. People who believe life is pointless without children are going to need them. But is that belief really hardcoded? Children seem to be the most obvious source of meaning for life, but that doesn't mean you can't find life satisfaction elsewhere if you navigate the philosophical waters successfully. And if in doing so you end up with a retrospectively satisfying life that also makes you happy on a moment-to-moment basis...

[Beskar]

Yes, those same moment-to-moment also on reflection upset up.

"I wish I studied instead of partying all night getting drunk"
"I wish I didn't sleep with all those women as a ski instructor and get syphilis"
etc

[rvg]

I guess I'll add my 2 cents to the "To have or not to have" debate. Prior to my daughter's birth I was pretty sure I knew what life was about, what mattered, what didn't matter, etc. Then she showed up and showed me that I knew nothing. I thought I knew life, I thought I knew love, but prior to her I really didn't. It was like the whole world was flipped upside down and nothing was ever the same again. Things that used to be important became meaningless, things that weren't anywhere near my mind became paramount. Back when she was about a year old or so she got really sick at one point (caught a very nasty strain of stomach flu), bad enough that we had to take her to the hospital. So there we were, my wife and I, sitting by her bed while she was laying there dehydrated, whimpering and barely able to breathe. At one point I excused myself, left the room they were in, walked out into the hallway and for about five minutes or so cried like a baby. She's five now, healthy, smart, cheerful, beautiful. She is one person on the face of this Earth for whom I would kill and die without hesitation.