The Complete EDB Guide - discussion

[CaesarVincens]

I just realized that I never tested the validity (regarding building logic/whether the building is actually buildable) of my code before posting the double requirements in both upgrade and building lines. This is mainly because I worked solely on the upgrade lines previously until I read your post regarding the building browser and then I realized a big disadvantage with it. So I just transferred all building_present requirements to the building_lines, leaving hidden_resource in upgrade lines, but I failed to test it logically although I only checked the building browser because I was "focusing" on it.

Hence, I did a single, quick and simple test, =D. Not rigorous, but the result is reassuring so I will just "accept" that it works while I continue modding...

I'll do some testing myself as well when I get a chance, but it is good that this works.

;...usual codes
upgrades
{
building_name requires hidden_resource rome
}
}
building_name requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
;...usual codes

The building will only be buildable at places with hidden_resource rome, BUT the building will also be available in building browsers of all cities (regardless of availability of hidden_resource rome) although it cannot be built.

This seems to be some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines, I am not sure why. I have posted the roads as an example, and all the roads happen to appear on the browser except for highways2, which happens not to have factions { all, } attached to the upgrade or building lines.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

building hinterland_roads
{
levels roads paved_roads highways roads1 roads2 highways2
{
roads requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 0
 }
 construction  1
 cost  1200
 settlement_min town
 upgrades
 {
; paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, }
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and hidden_resource sc or hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { scythia, numidia, }
;to test
 paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource rome
 paved_roads requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
;to try
paved_roads requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  3
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_town
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 highways requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
;(7)barb civ
 highways requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 highways requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 highways requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, germans, gauls, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
highways requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  4
 cost  4800
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 roads1 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads1 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  9
 cost  1200
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
;(7)barb civ
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee6
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market nomadforum and building_present_min_level health doctor
 roads2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads2 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  12
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 }
}
highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level market forum and building_present_min_level academic ludus_magnus and building_present_min_level age age6
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 3
 }
 construction  8
 cost  9600
 settlement_min huge_city
 upgrades
 {
 }
}
}
plugins
{
}
}

Are you saying that the highways2 doesn't show up in the romans_julii browser? Try adding your dummy hidden resource first. Like so: highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert. If I'm correct, that should show up.

I have some questions:
1) Regarding road_level, I used road_level 3 and it "works" although there is no visible effects (i.e. road does not change) and there is no error reported - has anyone encountered an error or a use for road_level 3 before?
2) There is also no bonus in trade or income whenever road is upgraded (i.e. road_level 1 to road_level 2, is that just my game acting wierd or its the norm?
3) According to the guide:
Trade_fleet, mine_resource, road_level, and the games, races and the four defensive effects carry no stand-alone "bonus" in the EDB file.
what is the meaning of no stand-alone bonus? Does it mean that trade_fleet bonus 1 is a faulty or ineffective code?

1) If I remember rightly, road_levels above 2 should increase the trade bonus but do nothing else (I remember testing this after downloading a mod which used higher level roads).
2) Increases in road level should increase trade, but you have to make sure you are checking it correctly. Open the city details scroll, queue up the building and there should be the predicted changes. Make sure that region has tradeable resources and all that.
3) That just means you don't need to use the word bonus with those effects. Unlike say happiness_bonus.

[lim_lucky]

I think I'm quite confused with the dummy building and dummy HR now... I missed out this reply from much earlier with regards to the dummy building.

From my quick testing, a dummy building did not function in the same way as a dummy hidden resource, that is it did not cause the building to appear in the browser.

I am not sure how you tested it, but I meant the dummy building to be used in the upgrade lines. So far I have quite a few building trees that can display the buildings in the browser based on using dummy buildings in upgrade lines. A simple example for my upgrade lines is show below:

upgrades
{
;ACTUAL upgrade lines using hidden_resources only
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y
;Dummy building line to allow building trees to be displayed
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1
}

Are you saying that the highways2 doesn't show up in the romans_julii browser? Try adding your dummy hidden resource first. Like so: highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert. If I'm correct, that should show up.

I used a dummy building to allow highways2 to show up on the browser. I was trying to show that there were some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines.
Before I explain what I mean by exceptions, I have some questions for you regarding dummyHR used in upgrade lines. I understand that you have used the 'dummyHR or' function in main building lines to allow buildings to be be displayed in the browser, however, have you tested the dummyHR in the upgrade lines?
The reason for this 'exception' that I stated is because I have a vague idea that dummyHR used in upgrade lines may not cause the buildings to be present in the browser. This is why I frequently use dummy buildings, but factions { all, } seem to disregard whether any dummy buildings was used and will show the building in the browser even when I used dummyHR.

1) If I remember rightly, road_levels above 2 should increase the trade bonus but do nothing else (I remember testing this after downloading a mod which used higher level roads).
2) Increases in road level should increase trade, but you have to make sure you are checking it correctly. Open the city details scroll, queue up the building and there should be the predicted changes. Make sure that region has tradeable resources and all that.
3) That just means you don't need to use the word bonus with those effects. Unlike say happiness_bonus.

I checked the city details scroll when I upgraded the roads (I do know that the scroll shows the positive or negative effects of a building in queue), and there are no increase in trade bonuses whether its road_level 0 to 1, or 1 to 2, or 2 to 3. That was one of the reason why I placed trade_base_income bonus some years back when I started editing my own mod. Perhaps my game is broken?

[CaesarVincens]

I think I'm quite confused with the dummy building and dummy HR now... I missed out this reply from much earlier with regards to the dummy building.


I am not sure how you tested it, but I meant the dummy building to be used in the upgrade lines. So far I have quite a few building trees that can display the buildings in the browser based on using dummy buildings in upgrade lines. A simple example for my upgrade lines is show below:

upgrades
{
;ACTUAL upgrade lines using hidden_resources only
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y
;Dummy building line to allow building trees to be displayed
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1
}

I meant using a dummy building as an alternate to a not condition. Like so: requires building_present dummy or not building_present real. That didn't work as I had hoped. Using a dummy building in a separate upgrade line of course should and does work as you have shown.

I used a dummy building to allow highways2 to show up on the browser. I was trying to show up on the browser. I was trying to show that there were some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines.
Before I explain what I mean by exceptions, I have some questions for you regarding dummyHR used in upgrade lines. I understand that you have used the 'dummyHR or' function in main building lines to allow buildings to be be displayed in the browser, however, have you tested the dummyHR in the upgrade lines?

The reason for this 'exception' that I stated is because I have a vague idea that dummyHR used in upgrade lines may not cause the buildings to be present in the browser. This is why I frequently use dummy buildings, but factions { all, } seem to disregard whether any dummy buildings was used and will show the building in the browser even when I used dummyHR.

I see now. Using a dummy building in the upgrade lines works because that shows up whereas a dummyHR shouldn't unless followed by an "or." The idea for a dummyHR is that it will prevent the gap error while giving proper conditions to the building. A dummy building used in upgrade lines is good for making the building show up for the desired factions regardless of other conditions. So, the end result is two sides of the same coin, both should stop the gap error, but one shows up while the other hides.

I checked the city details scroll when I upgraded the roads (I do know that the scroll shows the positive or negative effects of a building in queue), and there are no increase in trade bonuses whether its road_level 0 to 1, or 1 to 2, or 2 to 3. That was one of the reason why I placed trade_base_income bonus some years back when I started editing my own mod. Perhaps my game is broken?

That is strange. I know with certainty that road level affects trade income. I don't know why it's not working for you. Just to check, you do have 1.5, correct?


One more thing, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have heard from another forumer, dvk, (I don't know whether he frequents these forums under that name or another) that for whatever reason, tabs are bugged in EDB. CA in their infinite wisdom decided to not put tabs into the acceptable coding for EDB and so using them can cause problem, whether non-working code, as SubRosa can attest to, to even crashes if there are enough tabs.

Edit:
I just found something new also. Dummy buildings aren't needed for building conditionals. I tried using the level I was building as a condition and it showed up in the building browser.

Like this:

Building Example
         Building_x requires building_present_min_level Example Building_x

Obviously that is an unfulfillable condition, but used as an upgrade line will cause the building to appear in the browser despite not conditions.

[lim_lucky]

That is strange. I know with certainty that road level affects trade income. I don't know why it's not working for you. Just to check, you do have 1.5, correct?

I am using the Alexander engine, I believe I have upgraded it to 1.5 prior to that... I doubt it is an issue if the roads screw up for me (I can easily use trade bonuses to replace), just wanted to check whether it was the default case with everyone.

I just found something new also. Dummy buildings aren't needed for building conditionals. I tried using the level I was building as a condition and it showed up in the building browser.

Like this:
Code:

Building Example
Building_x requires building_present_min_level Example Building_x

Obviously that is an unfulfillable condition, but used as an upgrade line will cause the building to appear in the browser despite not conditions.

Great! I like the idea of using this same building level as a dummy building.

One more thing, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have heard from another forumer, dvk, (I don't know whether he frequents these forums under that name or another) that for whatever reason, tabs are bugged in EDB. CA in their infinite wisdom decided to not put tabs into the acceptable coding for EDB and so using them can cause problem, whether non-working code, as SubRosa can attest to, to even crashes if there are enough tabs.

I have read something similar somewhere in the forum quite recently (~ 1 month), but I forgot to add to fav, so I dont know where the link is. The CTD is true, quite some time back, I did not know of such a problem so I tried replacing most of the spaces with tabs to allow a better view/'easier' coding for new buildings and the game CTD w/o error msg - I re-edited but continued using tabs though to replace equal amount of spaces.

After I had read up on the tab issue, I started to replace tabs with spaces and the loading time seems to be slightly better than before, didn't specifically time though because my cpu takes a really really long game loading time probably 7 mins or more ( well at least not as long as the 20 mins load time when I used my external backup hard disk)

[CaesarVincens]

I am using the Alexander engine, I believe I have upgraded it to 1.5 prior to that... I doubt it is an issue if the roads screw up for me (I can easily use trade bonuses to replace), just wanted to check whether it was the default case with everyone.

I'll check it out on Alexander, perhaps it was changed.

I have read something similar somewhere in the forum quite recently (~ 1 month), but I forgot to add to fav, so I dont know where the link is. The CTD is true, quite some time back, I did not know of such a problem so I tried replacing most of the spaces with tabs to allow a better view/'easier' coding for new buildings and the game CTD w/o error msg - I re-edited but continued using tabs though to replace equal amount of spaces.

After I had read up on the tab issue, I started to replace tabs with spaces and the loading time seems to be slightly better than before, didn't specifically time though because my cpu takes a really really long game loading time probably 7 mins or more ( well at least not as long as the 20 mins load time when I used my external backup hard disk)

Yeah, this one of those really strange quirks of RTW.

[Dol Guldur]

I have coded quite a number of EDB files and have probably been doing it longer than most, and I cannot say I have ever observed any issue with CTDs regarding format - or lack of load speed. I should add that I've coded some pretty long and complex ones too ;)


Regarding roads, it's possible they have been nullified by the flooding bug perhaps - though I think iirc that also stops you from building them - they'll be some posts on it somewhere. It usually is noticed when watchtowers cannot be built. I've never observed this (probably because I do not build watchtowers or be observant enough ; ) though.

[PatricianS]

I have coded quite a number of EDB files and have probably been doing it longer than most, and I cannot say I have ever observed any issue with CTDs regarding format - or lack of load speed. I should add that I've coded some pretty long and complex ones too ;).

In our (RTR VII FoE) EDB we've got some pretty complex systems as well... With the total EDB running to 13840 lines.

Many (30-40%) lines of it looks like this:

population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { numidia, } and not building_present_min_level base_government numidia_govt_2 and hidden_resource liby_phoenician and hidden_resource capital and hidden_resource aor_africa_numidia and hidden_resource liby_phoenician and not hidden_resource special_hr_1 and hidden_resource not_greek_mac and building_present_min_level core_building governors_palace and not building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace

And I've not experienced the slightest bit of lag compared to vanilla RTW... Were would the lag appear? During the campaign or when loading?