The Complete EDB Guide - discussion

[lim_lucky]

I think I'm quite confused with the dummy building and dummy HR now... I missed out this reply from much earlier with regards to the dummy building.

From my quick testing, a dummy building did not function in the same way as a dummy hidden resource, that is it did not cause the building to appear in the browser.

I am not sure how you tested it, but I meant the dummy building to be used in the upgrade lines. So far I have quite a few building trees that can display the buildings in the browser based on using dummy buildings in upgrade lines. A simple example for my upgrade lines is show below:

upgrades
{
;ACTUAL upgrade lines using hidden_resources only
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y
;Dummy building line to allow building trees to be displayed
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1
}

Are you saying that the highways2 doesn't show up in the romans_julii browser? Try adding your dummy hidden resource first. Like so: highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert. If I'm correct, that should show up.

I used a dummy building to allow highways2 to show up on the browser. I was trying to show that there were some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines.
Before I explain what I mean by exceptions, I have some questions for you regarding dummyHR used in upgrade lines. I understand that you have used the 'dummyHR or' function in main building lines to allow buildings to be be displayed in the browser, however, have you tested the dummyHR in the upgrade lines?
The reason for this 'exception' that I stated is because I have a vague idea that dummyHR used in upgrade lines may not cause the buildings to be present in the browser. This is why I frequently use dummy buildings, but factions { all, } seem to disregard whether any dummy buildings was used and will show the building in the browser even when I used dummyHR.

1) If I remember rightly, road_levels above 2 should increase the trade bonus but do nothing else (I remember testing this after downloading a mod which used higher level roads).
2) Increases in road level should increase trade, but you have to make sure you are checking it correctly. Open the city details scroll, queue up the building and there should be the predicted changes. Make sure that region has tradeable resources and all that.
3) That just means you don't need to use the word bonus with those effects. Unlike say happiness_bonus.

I checked the city details scroll when I upgraded the roads (I do know that the scroll shows the positive or negative effects of a building in queue), and there are no increase in trade bonuses whether its road_level 0 to 1, or 1 to 2, or 2 to 3. That was one of the reason why I placed trade_base_income bonus some years back when I started editing my own mod. Perhaps my game is broken?

[CaesarVincens]

I think I'm quite confused with the dummy building and dummy HR now... I missed out this reply from much earlier with regards to the dummy building.


I am not sure how you tested it, but I meant the dummy building to be used in the upgrade lines. So far I have quite a few building trees that can display the buildings in the browser based on using dummy buildings in upgrade lines. A simple example for my upgrade lines is show below:

upgrades
{
;ACTUAL upgrade lines using hidden_resources only
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y
;Dummy building line to allow building trees to be displayed
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1
}

I meant using a dummy building as an alternate to a not condition. Like so: requires building_present dummy or not building_present real. That didn't work as I had hoped. Using a dummy building in a separate upgrade line of course should and does work as you have shown.

I used a dummy building to allow highways2 to show up on the browser. I was trying to show up on the browser. I was trying to show that there were some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines.
Before I explain what I mean by exceptions, I have some questions for you regarding dummyHR used in upgrade lines. I understand that you have used the 'dummyHR or' function in main building lines to allow buildings to be be displayed in the browser, however, have you tested the dummyHR in the upgrade lines?

The reason for this 'exception' that I stated is because I have a vague idea that dummyHR used in upgrade lines may not cause the buildings to be present in the browser. This is why I frequently use dummy buildings, but factions { all, } seem to disregard whether any dummy buildings was used and will show the building in the browser even when I used dummyHR.

I see now. Using a dummy building in the upgrade lines works because that shows up whereas a dummyHR shouldn't unless followed by an "or." The idea for a dummyHR is that it will prevent the gap error while giving proper conditions to the building. A dummy building used in upgrade lines is good for making the building show up for the desired factions regardless of other conditions. So, the end result is two sides of the same coin, both should stop the gap error, but one shows up while the other hides.

I checked the city details scroll when I upgraded the roads (I do know that the scroll shows the positive or negative effects of a building in queue), and there are no increase in trade bonuses whether its road_level 0 to 1, or 1 to 2, or 2 to 3. That was one of the reason why I placed trade_base_income bonus some years back when I started editing my own mod. Perhaps my game is broken?

That is strange. I know with certainty that road level affects trade income. I don't know why it's not working for you. Just to check, you do have 1.5, correct?


One more thing, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have heard from another forumer, dvk, (I don't know whether he frequents these forums under that name or another) that for whatever reason, tabs are bugged in EDB. CA in their infinite wisdom decided to not put tabs into the acceptable coding for EDB and so using them can cause problem, whether non-working code, as SubRosa can attest to, to even crashes if there are enough tabs.

Edit:
I just found something new also. Dummy buildings aren't needed for building conditionals. I tried using the level I was building as a condition and it showed up in the building browser.

Like this:

Building Example
         Building_x requires building_present_min_level Example Building_x

Obviously that is an unfulfillable condition, but used as an upgrade line will cause the building to appear in the browser despite not conditions.

[lim_lucky]

That is strange. I know with certainty that road level affects trade income. I don't know why it's not working for you. Just to check, you do have 1.5, correct?

I am using the Alexander engine, I believe I have upgraded it to 1.5 prior to that... I doubt it is an issue if the roads screw up for me (I can easily use trade bonuses to replace), just wanted to check whether it was the default case with everyone.

I just found something new also. Dummy buildings aren't needed for building conditionals. I tried using the level I was building as a condition and it showed up in the building browser.

Like this:
Code:

Building Example
Building_x requires building_present_min_level Example Building_x

Obviously that is an unfulfillable condition, but used as an upgrade line will cause the building to appear in the browser despite not conditions.

Great! I like the idea of using this same building level as a dummy building.

One more thing, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have heard from another forumer, dvk, (I don't know whether he frequents these forums under that name or another) that for whatever reason, tabs are bugged in EDB. CA in their infinite wisdom decided to not put tabs into the acceptable coding for EDB and so using them can cause problem, whether non-working code, as SubRosa can attest to, to even crashes if there are enough tabs.

I have read something similar somewhere in the forum quite recently (~ 1 month), but I forgot to add to fav, so I dont know where the link is. The CTD is true, quite some time back, I did not know of such a problem so I tried replacing most of the spaces with tabs to allow a better view/'easier' coding for new buildings and the game CTD w/o error msg - I re-edited but continued using tabs though to replace equal amount of spaces.

After I had read up on the tab issue, I started to replace tabs with spaces and the loading time seems to be slightly better than before, didn't specifically time though because my cpu takes a really really long game loading time probably 7 mins or more ( well at least not as long as the 20 mins load time when I used my external backup hard disk)

[CaesarVincens]

I am using the Alexander engine, I believe I have upgraded it to 1.5 prior to that... I doubt it is an issue if the roads screw up for me (I can easily use trade bonuses to replace), just wanted to check whether it was the default case with everyone.

I'll check it out on Alexander, perhaps it was changed.

I have read something similar somewhere in the forum quite recently (~ 1 month), but I forgot to add to fav, so I dont know where the link is. The CTD is true, quite some time back, I did not know of such a problem so I tried replacing most of the spaces with tabs to allow a better view/'easier' coding for new buildings and the game CTD w/o error msg - I re-edited but continued using tabs though to replace equal amount of spaces.

After I had read up on the tab issue, I started to replace tabs with spaces and the loading time seems to be slightly better than before, didn't specifically time though because my cpu takes a really really long game loading time probably 7 mins or more ( well at least not as long as the 20 mins load time when I used my external backup hard disk)

Yeah, this one of those really strange quirks of RTW.

[Dol Guldur]

I have coded quite a number of EDB files and have probably been doing it longer than most, and I cannot say I have ever observed any issue with CTDs regarding format - or lack of load speed. I should add that I've coded some pretty long and complex ones too ;)


Regarding roads, it's possible they have been nullified by the flooding bug perhaps - though I think iirc that also stops you from building them - they'll be some posts on it somewhere. It usually is noticed when watchtowers cannot be built. I've never observed this (probably because I do not build watchtowers or be observant enough ; ) though.

[PatricianS]

I have coded quite a number of EDB files and have probably been doing it longer than most, and I cannot say I have ever observed any issue with CTDs regarding format - or lack of load speed. I should add that I've coded some pretty long and complex ones too ;).

In our (RTR VII FoE) EDB we've got some pretty complex systems as well... With the total EDB running to 13840 lines.

Many (30-40%) lines of it looks like this:

population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { numidia, } and not building_present_min_level base_government numidia_govt_2 and hidden_resource liby_phoenician and hidden_resource capital and hidden_resource aor_africa_numidia and hidden_resource liby_phoenician and not hidden_resource special_hr_1 and hidden_resource not_greek_mac and building_present_min_level core_building governors_palace and not building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace

And I've not experienced the slightest bit of lag compared to vanilla RTW... Were would the lag appear? During the campaign or when loading?

[Dol Guldur]

And I've not experienced the slightest bit of lag compared to vanilla RTW... Were would the lag appear? During the campaign or when loading?

No, idea - my mods load superfast

That's a long conditional line, but even with multiple capability lines (where tabs/spaces could be more of an issue) I have not observed anything.

I have coded mainly in BI.