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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    By Sher Zieve

    The 1979 violent takeover of the US Embassy in Iran may be coming back to bite the new Iranian President-elect Mahmood Ahmadinejad. Ahmadinejad was named by former hostage Colonel Charles Scott, now 73, as one of his captors. Colonel Scott said: “The new president of Iran is a terrorist. As soon as I saw his picture in the paper, I knew that was the bastard...He was one of the top two or three leaders. ”

    Retired Navy Captain Donald Sharer also confirmed Ahmadinejad’s role in the 1979 US Embassy capture when he said that he remembered him as “a hard-liner, a cruel individual”. Sharer advised that he has personally been interrogated by Ahmadinejad. Kevin Hermening, a Marine security guard at the time, verified the statements made by Scott and Sharer: “He was involved in interrogating me the day we were taken captive.”
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    It proves that anyone can make it in Iran I guess.

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    White House listening to allegations that Iranian leader was hostage-taker
    Associated Press
    June 30, 2005 IRAN0701
    Page: 1 2

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    WASHINGTON -- The White House said Thursday it is taking seriously the allegations of some former American hostages who say the believe that Iran's president-elect was one of their captors in the late 1970s.

    "I think the news reports and statements from several former American hostages raise many questions about his past,'' White House press secretary Scott McClellan said of the Iranian president-elect Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "We take them very seriously and we are looking into them to better understand the facts.''

    Former hostages Chuck Scott, David Roeder, William J. Daugherty and Don A. Sharer told The Associated Press that after seeing Ahmadinejad on television, they have no doubt he was one of the hostage-takers. A fifth ex-hostage, Kevin Hermening, said he reached the same conclusion after looking at photos. A close aide to Ahmadinejad denied the president-elect took part in the seizure of the embassy or in holding Americans hostage.

    The hostage-taking, which came in reprisal for Washington's refusal to surrender ousted Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi for trial there, contributed substantially to then-President Jimmy Carter's defeat by Ronald Reagan in the 1980 election.

    Militant students seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran on Nov. 4, 1979, and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. The shah had fled Iran earlier that year after he was overthrown by the Islamic Revolution.

    Another former hostage, retired Air Force Col. Thomas E. Schaefer, said he doesn't recognize Ahmadinejad as one of his captors. Several former students among the hostage-takers also said they did not believe that Ahmadinejad had taken part in it.

    President Bush was asked about the allegation in an interview with The Times of London conducted Wednesday and published Thursday. A transcript on the newspaper's Web site shows Bush did not comment directly on any role that Ahmadinejad may have played in the hostage-taking, but said "time will tell'' whether the United States and its allies will be able to work with him.

    The president said that Ahmadinejad's first test will be whether he is prepared to negotiate in good faith with Britain, France and Germany about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

    "They should not be able to develop the technologies that will enable the enrichment of uranium which will ultimately yield a nuclear weapon,'' Bush said. "I say that because they tried to do that clandestinely before, which obviously shows that there's a conspiratorial nature in their thinking.''

    Several of the former hostages insisted they were certain that the president-elect was among their captors. Daugherty said it's further evidence that the State Department should stop defending Iran's immunity from lawsuits filed by the former hostages seeking reparations.

    In April 2002, a federal judge threw out a lawsuit by the hostages seeking $33 billion in damages. The State Department intervened, arguing the lawsuit would violate the U.S.-Iranian agreements that freed the hostages and would damage U.S. credibility.

    "This puts the Bush administration in an interesting position,'' Daugherty said. "You know how he said, `You're either for us or you're for the terrorists.' Well, now the leader of Iran is a terrorist.''

    Ahmadinejad was a member of the Office of Strengthening Unity, the student organization that planned the embassy takeover, but he was opposed to taking the U.S. Embassy, several of his associates said.

    The aide, Meisan Rowhani, told the AP from Tehran that Ahmadinejad was asked during recent private meetings if he had a role in the hostage taking. Rowhani said he replied, "No. I believed that if we do that the world will swallow us.''

    Mohammad Ali Sayed Nejad, a longtime friend of the president-elect, said that in 1979, "Ahmadinejad had focused his fight against communism and Marxism and he was one of the opponents of seizing the U.S. Embassy. He was a constant opponent.''

    Some former hostages couldn't be sure about their captors. Former Marine embassy guard Paul Lewis of Sidney, Ill., said he thought Ahmadinejad looked vaguely familiar when he saw a picture of him on the news last week, but "my memories were more of the gun barrel, not the people behind it.''

    Daugherty, who worked for the CIA in Iran and now lives in Savannah, said a man he's convinced was Ahmadinejad was among a group of ringleaders escorting a Vatican representative during a visit in the early days of the hostage crisis.

    "It's impossible to forget a guy like that,'' Daugherty said. "Clearly the way he acted, the fact he gave orders, that he was older, most certainly he was one of the ringleaders.''

    Ahmadinejad, the hard-line mayor of Tehran, was declared winner Wednesday of Iran's presidential runoff election, defeating one of Iran's best-known statesmen, Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani. The stunning upset put conservatives firmly in control of all branches of power in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    In a first-person account on the British Broadcasting Corp. Web site, world affairs editor John Simpson said he, too, recognized Ahmadinejad, saying there was something "faintly familiar'' about him. "I realised where I must have seen him: in the former American embassy in Tehran,'' Simpson wrote.

    Scott, Roeder, Daugherty and Sharer said they have been exchanging e-mails since seeing Ahmadinejad emerge as a serious contender in Iran's elections.

    "He was extremely cruel,'' said Sharer, of Bedford, Ind. "He's one of the hard-liners. So that tells you where their government's going to stand for the next four to five years.''

    A memory expert cautioned that people who discuss their recollections can influence one another in reinforcing false memories. Also, it's harder to identify from memory someone of a different race or ethnicity, said psychologist Elizabeth Loftus of the University of California, Irvine.

    "Twenty-five years is an awfully long time,'' Loftus said. "Of course we can't say this is false, but these things can lead people down the path of having a false memory
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 06-30-2005 at 17:09.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Bush is gonna have bad time ahead....

    And also the world.... Terorists are multiplying!!!
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    Intifadah Member Dâriűsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Guess we'll have to take their word for it, eh?
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    Member Member sharrukin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    I am a little confused about something. How can the Americans not know? The article indicated he was the Mayor of Tehran and then ran and won a political campaign for the President-elect of Iran. Didn't the CIA even look into who the front runner was? Are we supposed to believe that the Americans don't have files on top Iranian leaders? The Iranians were not shy about the hostage taking, so why didn't this guy campaign on his record of 'glorious hostage taking' when seeking minor public office in previous years? At the time those guys were heroes in Iran. Why are we only hearing about this now?
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    How can the Americans not know?

    Faulty intelligence ..... again

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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    How can the Americans not know?

    Faulty intelligence ..... again
    Or possibily no one cared.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    looks to me like a bunch of propaganda designed to be used as a scapegoat to illegally invade Iran. just like how they had the propaganda scapegoat of Saddam's non-existant WMD's

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    I really find it amusing that Nav backs thew nation that probably is most responsible for Islamic terrorism and whos leaders would like to wipe his religion from the face of the earth.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    Or possibily no one cared.
    No one caring seems like faulty intelligence to me, if the guy gets to be Iran's leader.

    Oh Saddam has got WMD and has it here? It is OK, we don't care at the moment we have deals with other dictators to do!
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Navaros
    looks to me like a bunch of propaganda designed to be used as a scapegoat to illegally invade Iran. just like how they had the propaganda scapegoat of Saddam's non-existant WMD's
    And Nav sometimes you do speak a whole heap of sense.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    And Nav sometimes you do speak a whole heap of sense.
    This proves Navs nuts
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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    No one caring seems like faulty intelligence to me, if the guy gets to be Iran's leader.
    So you want the intelligence community to have a file on everyone - just in case they make it to a leadership position. You willing to have the foreign governments have investigate you on the sly to compile such a file? Are you willing to pay the taxes necessary for your government to have files on everyone in every country across the planet?

    However it seems that the United States Intelligence service has not weighed into the discussion as of yet. There might be some more news out there - but from the articles posted we can not determine if any Intelligence service has a file on him or not.

    And he has already gotten the President-Elect title, are you now advocating something to happen to this individual?

    Oh Saddam has got WMD and has it here? It is OK, we don't care at the moment we have deals with other dictators to do!
    Out of context to this discussion - seems like someone wants to rant - or is it troll?
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Hardly having files of everybody... This guy was the Mayor of Tehran, an insider with the hardliners, part of the revolution, a front runner for President of a country deemed to be part of an 'axis of evil' and #1 priority for the US administration... Need I go on? Hardly asking for a file of every person on the planet.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    So you want the intelligence community to have a file on everyone
    There is a big difference between having a file on everyone and having a file on someone who is the leader of a country that you think is a huge threat to the free world and 5 people have alledged committed an act of terrorism against US soveriegn territory and kept 50+ US citizens hostage for over a year don't you think .
    Or would the intelligence community rather forget about that embarrassing little episode and all that it entailed

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    Member Member sharrukin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Well the current administration and the truth are not really on speaking terms anymore. It's not as if we have not heard numerous stories before, only to find later that they were complete fabrications. This may only be a ploy to put pressure on the Iranians before the discussions on their nuclear program. It would be interesting to hear from the CIA, as they are somewhat more reliable than the Bush administration.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
    -- John Stewart Mills

    But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
    LORD ACTON

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    Altogether quite not there! Member GodsPetMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Wow, a terrorist leader at 23, I'm impressed, clearly a political animal of some sort.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    . It would be interesting to hear from the CIA, as they are somewhat more reliable than the Bush administration.
    They are. Again arent they the ones who failed to warn us of 911 ? Who said Saddam had WMDs and ties to AQ? The same ones who have been looking for Bin Laden for years and dont have a clue as to where he is? Yes very reliable. Or is that only when they agree with your preception of things?
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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Hardly having files of everybody... This guy was the Mayor of Tehran, an insider with the hardliners, part of the revolution, a front runner for President of a country deemed to be part of an 'axis of evil' and #1 priority for the US administration... Need I go on? Hardly asking for a file of every person on the planet.
    Wow a mayor - so Intelligence services should have files on Mayors now. Well at least your narrowing down the field.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Good point Gawain , but then again when you compare the reliability of the CIA to the reliability of the Bush administration then the CIA wins easily

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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    So you want the intelligence community to have a file on everyone
    There is a big difference between having a file on everyone and having a file on someone who is the leader of a country that you think is a huge threat to the free world and 5 people have alledged committed an act of terrorism against US soveriegn territory and kept 50+ US citizens hostage for over a year don't you think .
    Or would the intelligence community rather forget about that embarrassing little episode and all that it entailed
    I guess you failed to read this part of my post.

    However it seems that the United States Intelligence service has not weighed into the discussion as of yet. There might be some more news out there - but from the articles posted we can not determine if any Intelligence service has a file on him or not.

    And one could add that no Intelligence service has weighed into the discussion as far as I am aware of right now. It seems that some would like to jump to conclusions without finding out all of the information available.

    Once again the philisophy of Thomas Jefferson in my Sig line still holds to be true.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    A Veteran Wargamer Member kiwitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    It's not the first time a "Terrorist" became president.

    Arafat even shook hands with a US President, and proves some people can change and be respectable after a "quarter of a century"
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    OK iLL beat you guys to it..... Or Prime Minister.
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    Member Member sharrukin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    They are. Again arent they the ones who failed to warn us of 911 ? Who said Saddam had WMDs and ties to AQ? The same ones who have been looking for Bin Laden for years and dont have a clue as to where he is? Yes very reliable. Or is that only when they agree with your preception of things?
    No warning?

    January 1995 - Philippine police investigating a possible attack on the Pope uncover plans for Operation Bojinka, connected to World Trade Center (WTC) bomber Ramsi Youssef. Parts of the plan call for crashing hijacked airliners into civilian targets. Details of the plan are disclosed in Youssef's 1997 trial for the 1993 WTC bombing. [Source: Agence France-Presse, Dec. 7, 2001]

    August 2000 -- Suspected Al Qaeda operatives wiretapped by Italian police made apparent references to plans for major attacks involving airports, airplanes and the United States according to transcripts obtained by the Los Angeles Times. The Times suggests that the information might not have been passed to U.S. authorities (hard to believe), but it did report that Italian authorities would not comment on the report. The Times also noted that "Italian and U.S. anti-terrorism experts cooperate closely." [Source: The Los Angeles Times, May 29, 2002]

    Jan. 30, 2001 - Sept. 11 hijacker Ziad Jarrah was questioned in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). A number of UAE, Middle Eastern, European, and U.S. sources were cited in this CNN report, which said the CIA requested Jarrah be interrogated because he had been in Afghanistan and was suspected to have ties to terrorists. An unnamed CIA spokesman said the other sources' claims that the agency knew anything about Jarrah before Sept. 11 were "flatly untrue." Jarrah's Jan. 30 detainment at the airport in Dubai, UAE came six months after he took flying lessons in the U.S. Jarrah was released because "U.S. officials were satisfied," said the report. [Source: CNN, Aug. 1, 2002 http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/01/cia...er/index.html]

    June 2001 - German intelligence, the BND, warns the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists are "planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture." [Source: Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Sept. 14, 2001; See
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ng_story.html]

    July 2001 - FBI agents in Arizona write a memorandum warning about suspicious activities involving a group of Middle Eastern men taking flight training lessons in Phoenix. The memorandum specifically mentions Osama bin Laden and warns of connections to terrorist activities. [Source: The New York Times, May 14, 2002]

    summer 2001 - The online newswire online.ie reports on Sept. 14 that an Iranian man phones U.S. law enforcement to warn of an imminent attack on the WTC in the week of Sept. 9. German police confirm the calls but state that the U.S. Secret Service would not reveal any further information. [Source:
    http://www.online.ie/news/viewer.adp?article=1512332.
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre..._ie_story.html ]

    summer 2001 - Jordanian intelligence, the GID, makes a communications intercept deemed so important that King Abdullah's men relay it to Washington, probably through the CIA station in Amman. To make doubly sure the message got through it was passed through an Arab intermediary to a German intelligence agent. The message: A major attack was planned inside the U.S., and aircraft would be used. The code name of the operation was "The Big Wedding." "When it became clear that the information was embarrassing to Bush Administration officials and congressmen who at first denied that there had been any such warnings before Sept. 11, senior Jordanian officials backed away from their earlier confirmations." This case was authenticated by ABC reporter John K. Cooley. [Source: International Herald Tribune (IHT), May 21, 2002]

    summer 2001 - Russian intelligence notifies the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots have been specifically training for missions involving hijacked airliners. This is reported in the Russian press and news stories are translated for FTW by a retired CIA officer. (Note: The story currently on the Izvestia web site has been edited to delete a key paragraph.) [Source: Izvestia, Sept. 12, 2001,
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...tory_pic.html]

    July 2001 - The G8 summit at Genoa, Italy is surrounded by anti-aircraft guns, and local airspace is closed off after Italian and Egyptian officials (including President Hosni Mubarak) warn American intelligence that airliners stuffed with explosives might be used to attack President Bush. U.S. officials state that the warnings were "unsubstantiated." (But I wonder if they would have taken away the anti-aircraft artillery?) [Source: Los Angeles Times, Sept. 27, 2001]

    August 2001 - The FBI arrests an Islamic militant linked to bin Laden in Boston. French intelligence sources confirm that the man is a key member of bin Laden's network and the FBI learns that he has been taking flying lessons. At the time of his arrest the man is in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals. [Source: Reuters, Sept. 13, 2001]

    August 2001 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders Russian intelligence to warn the U.S. government "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings. [Source: MSNBC interview with Putin, Sept. 15, 2001]

    August 2001 - President Bush receives classified intelligence briefings at his Crawford, Texas ranch indicating that Osama bin Laden might be planning to hijack commercial airliners. [CBS News; CNN, May 15, 2002]

    August/September 2001 - According to a detailed 13-page memo written by Minneapolis FBI legal officer Colleen Rowley, FBI headquarters ignores urgent, direct warnings from French intelligence services about pending attacks. In addition, a single Supervisory Special Agent (SSA) in Washington expends extra effort to thwart the field office's investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui, in one case rewriting Rowley's affidavit for a search warrant to search Moussaoui's laptop. Rowley's memo uses terms like "deliberately sabotage," "block," "integrity," "omitted," "downplayed," "glossed over," "mis-characterize," "improper political reasons, "deliberately thwarting," "deliberately further undercut," "suppressed," and "not completely honest." These are not terms describing negligent acts but rather, deliberate acts. FBI field agents desperately attempt to get action, but to no avail. One agent speculates that bin Laden might be planning to crash airliners into the WTC, while Rowley ironically noted that the SSA who had committed these deliberate actions had actually been promoted after Sept. 11. [Source: Associated Press, May 21, 2002]

    Sept. 3-10, 2001 - MSNBC reports on Sept. 16 that a caller to a Cayman Islands radio talk show gave several warnings of an imminent attack on the U.S. by bin Laden in the week prior to 9-11.

    early-September 2001 - An FBI internal document, based upon field notes from Minnesota field agents discloses that the agents had been investigating and had questioned the "20th hijacker," Zacarias Moussaoui. The field notes speculate that Moussaoui, who had been taking flight lessons, might crash an airliner into the WTC. Interestingly, the field agents' requests to obtain a search warrant for his personal computer were denied. French intelligence confirms to the FBI that Moussaoui has ties to terrorist groups and may have traveled to Afghanistan. The agents also had no knowledge of the Phoenix memo (See Item #18). One news story states that agents were in "a frenzy," absolutely convinced that he was "going to do something with a plane." [Source: Newsweek, May 20, 2002 issue, story by Michael Isikoff].

    The CIA, FBI, Jordan, Russia, France and Germany warned you about what was coming. This is a failure of intelligence but not of the CIA-FBI variety.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
    -- John Stewart Mills

    But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
    LORD ACTON

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    Wow a mayor - so Intelligence services should have files on Mayors now. Well at least your narrowing down the field.
    Well done not addressing any of the other points I made and not understanding the Iranian political system. A mayor in Iran is like a Governer in the US. They have significant powers and a high profile figures.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Intifadah Member Dâriűsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    I really find it amusing that Nav backs thew nation that probably is most responsible for Islamic terrorism and whos leaders would like to wipe his religion from the face of the earth.
    Saudi Arabia?
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Saudi Arabia?
    Their a close second but gaining by the moment. The more I think about it I dont know why we attacked Iraq instead of Iran. I mean didnt we support Sadddam against Iran in the first place and isnt Iran really the guy with the nukes?
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Their a close second but gaining by the moment. The more I think about it I dont know why we attacked Iraq instead of Iran. I mean didnt we support Sadddam against Iran in the first place and isnt Iran really the guy with the nukes?
    At least you're starting to see some of the absurdities pointed out by the anti war crowd.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Well done not addressing any of the other points I made and not understanding the Iranian political system. A mayor in Iran is like a Governer in the US. They have significant powers and a high profile figures.
    Keep fooling yourself Jag. If I had the habit of being sarcastic in my writings, you might have caught on that the questions were absurd.

    I know what the mayor of Tehran is equilevant to. And its not a governer of a state in the United States - its stronger then a United States Mayor - but not as strong as a governor. The closest equilivent in the United States is the Mayor of the City Washington D.C..

    Its amazing that from a news article that you believe that there is not a file on this individual already, or that the Intelligence services of serval countries don't know who he is, that is the assumption that such statements coming from you would direct one to conclude.

    Did it ever sink into your head that the reason that the governments of several countries have not confirmed this story is because its a simple matter of politics.

    If the government of the United States points out that in an offical stance that the President-elect of Iran was a former terrorist, would that help to calm relations between the two nations or make it worse? Apply a little common sense.

    For an englishman who likes to use sacrasm and jabs at others for the statements they make - you sure can not tell when its being done to you.

    Like Tribesman you completely missed this statement in my very first post.

    However it seems that the United States Intelligence service has not weighed into the discussion as of yet. There might be some more news out there - but from the articles posted we can not determine if any Intelligence service has a file on him or not.

    From a report less then two hours ago from this post. To help you out Jag I have bolded the important aspects of the report

    WASHINGTON - The White House said Friday it would not be surprised if the newly elected Iranian president turns out to have been a main participant in the holding of American hostages in Tehran a quarter century ago. But the administration said it was still trying to determine the facts.

    Five former U.S. hostages who saw Iranian president-elect Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in photos or on television said they believe he was among the hostage-takers. One said he was interrogated by Ahmadinejad.

    "I don't think it should be surprising to anyone if it turns out to be true," presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said. "This is a regime run by an unelected few that only allowed its handpicked candidates to run in an election that was well short of free and fair."

    The administration has acknowledged that it has followed Ahmadinejad's career in Iranian politics, so it was unclear why the United States could not say if he were a hostage-taker or whether the issue had been explored before. "Given the nature of the regime and his own past, I don't think it should be surprising," McClellan said.

    If Ahmadinejad turns out to have been a participant, he wouldn't be the first top Iranian official with a role in the 1979 crisis.

    The current Iranian vice president and head of the Environment Department, Massoumeh Ebtekar, was the chief interpreter and spokeswoman for the radical students who took over the U.S. Embassy and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days.

    Dubbed "Sister Mary" by the American press because her heavy head scarf resembled a nun's habit, Ebtekar gave almost nightly interviews during the standoff, denouncing the hostages as spies and accusing the United States of committing crimes.

    Some of the former students have said Ahmadinejad opposed the takeover and played no role in it, even though he was a member of the hard-line Islamic student group that seized the embassy.

    Ebtekar, who is also one of Iran's six vice presidents, has been the highest-ranking woman in the moderate-leaning government of President Mohammad Khatami.

    She acknowledged her part in the U.S. Embassy takeover in remarks to reporters in 1998.

    "The generation that is in executive and policy-making jobs is a revolutionary generation that played an active role in every stage of the revolution," Ebtekar said then.

    A report in The New York Times that year had detailed her involvement, which was not listed on Ebtekar's biography.

    She was an 18-year-old freshman at Polytechnic University in Tehran when she became the public voice of the student takeover. She spoke English better than others in the student group because she had lived in suburban Philadelphia as a child and had attended American schools.

    She once told an ABC News reporter that she could imagine being provoked into killing the hostages.

    "Yes," she said. "When I've seen an American gun being lifted up and killing my brothers and sisters in the streets, of course."

    In the turbulent early days of Iran's Islamic Revolution, Ahmadinejad was more concerned with putting down leftists and communists at universities than striking at Americans, former students said. During the long standoff, he was writing and speaking against leftist students, they said.

    National security adviser Stephen Hadley said Thursday that the United States has followed his career. "Obviously, one of the things you do when you get a report like this is look back and see what you have in the files and that's the process that's going on now," he said.

    Hadley said the White House was looking into the photographs and had not reached any conclusions. "They are allegations at the present time," he said. "We need to get the facts."

    Hadley stressed that the United States would have to deal with Ahmadinejad, even if the administration did not approve of the way he was elected. President Bush denounced the election, saying it was designed to maintain power in the hands of an unelected few who denied ballot access to more than 1,000 people who wanted to run.
    Now when the Whitehouse begins the standard rethoric on the issue - then get on your high horse. But until lets wait for an honest report about the individual's past - not what is just initially reported.
    Last edited by Redleg; 07-01-2005 at 16:26.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    Intifadah Member Dâriűsh's Avatar
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    Post Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Their a close second but gaining by the moment. The more I think about it I dont know why we attacked Iraq instead of Iran. I mean didnt we support Sadddam against Iran in the first place and isnt Iran really the guy with the nukes?
    Iran adheres to Shi'a Islam, and though many Iranians are no friends of America, I can’t really see a global Islamic terror conspiracy with roots in Iran, as Shi’a Islam accounts for less than 15% of all Muslims.

    Besides, the Saudi funded “World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders” or “ Al-Qaeda” are Wahhabi (Unitarian Sunni). Their former landlords, the Taliban, were Deobandi (Sunnies). And the orthodox Saudi clergy and their followers are also Wahhabi (Unitarian Sunni). The majority of the insurgents in Iraq, including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Ba’ath loyalists (if any still remain) and the Fedayeen remnants, are Sunni. Your most recent brush with the Iraqi Shi’a was the 2004 uprising of Muqtada al-Sadr and the Al-Mahdi. (If anyone even remembers)


    And the Wahhabi have a history of persecuting the Shi’a, whome they regard as dirty kuffar.
    Last edited by Dâriűsh; 07-01-2005 at 16:36. Reason: Allahu Akbar!
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin

  30. #30
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran President-elect Named Terrorist

    Dariush, i tried explaining earlier to some people here that the mullahs in Iran do not represent the islamic religion on this earth, but it all fell on deaf ears. Islam doesn't have a central representative anyway.

    Also the baath loyalists are secular, the sunni part of their ideology is just... icing.
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