Student Gets F Grade For Mentioning God

[PanzerJaeger]

More extreme left-wing college professors. Isnt the campus - and liberal ideology - supposed to support ideas from all over the socio-political spectrum?

I wouldnt even have posted this, as its just one incident in a country that has thousands of college professors - but it seems like every week a new story breaks about this kind of stuff... and who can forget Ward Churchill, who is celebrated in many circles these days.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45058

A college in southern California is now investigating the case of a student who says she was given an F for mentioning "God" against the expressed wishes of her atheist instructor.

Bethany Hauf, a freshman at Victor Valley Community College near San Bernadino, wrote the G-word 41 times in a paper titled "In God We Trust," examining the role of religion in government.


She included "God" despite being told not to by adjunct English instructor Michael Shefchik.

"He said it would offend others in class," Hauf, 34, told the Daily Press. "I didn't realize God was taboo."

The mother of four from Apple Valley, Calif., is now demanding an apology from the school, as well as a regrading of her 10-page report.

"I don't lose my First Amendment rights when I walk into that college," she said.

"We are very serious about this situation," VVC spokesman Bill Greulich told WorldNetDaily. "You have two rights in conflict – the right to believe in what you believe in, and academic freedom. We're going to take steps that are appropriate. We don't have all the facts yet."

Greulich says Hauf began the process to challenge her grade by meeting with the department chair, but did not continue up the chain of command in her recourse. He says she could still do that, appealing to the vice president, superintendent and president of the school.

Meanwhile, Hauf has contacted the American Center for Law & Justice, which sent a letter to Patricia Spencer, president of VVC.

Jay Sekulow, chief counsel for the ACLJ recounted in the letter what Shefchik wrote to Bethany when she was getting approval for her subject matter:

"I have one limiting factor – no mention of big 'G' gods, i.e., one, true god argumentation," Shefchik stated.

"He told me you might as well write about the Easter Bunny," Hauf told the Daily Press. "He wanted to censor the word God."



Shefchik has not been reached for comment, but Judy Solis, chair of the English department, says Hauf was given three options: submit the report with God included, make revisions and edit out the G-word, or rewrite the entire report.

"She continued to write her paper," Solis told the Press. "She knew what the consequences were."

Sekulow says Hauf should have had no ban on her freedom of speech or religious views in the assignment.

"Bethany's paper discusses some of the evidences supporting a hypothesis that, while the Constitution prohibits an established church, religion was essential to the founding of the Nation and to its governance thereafter," he writes.

"Her paper was not one written 'about God' per se. Nor was her paper inherently and necessarily religious. And, in keeping with the requirements of the assignment, it was assiduously supported with citations to authority and written objectively. Consequently, even if, in a country in which academic and constitutional freedoms are so highly prized, it could be constitutional to impose a topical ban on papers about big 'G' gods, it was sophomoric error to read Mrs. Hauf's research paper as falling within the prohibited zone."

Despite the failing mark on the paper, Hauf passed the spring-semester course with a final grade of C.

[Big_John]

ugh, can't believe i'm posting in the backroom again.. anyway, what's this, a 34-year-old at a community college? uh, yeah.. gonna have to claim a "who gives a flying ####" on this one. in any case, the student should have taken up the problem with administration before submitting a paper that violated the written instructions of the professor. i mean, if he tells you "no mention of big 'G' gods", and then you go ahead and submit the paper with 41 "big 'G' gods" in there.. what do you expect?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

gonna have to claim a "who gives a flying ####" on this one. in any case, the student should have taken up the problem with administration before submitting a paper that violated the written instructions of the professor. i mean, if he tells you "no mention of big 'G' gods", and then you go ahead and submit the paper with 41 "big 'G' gods" in there.. what do you expect?

How do you do a paper on "In God We Trust," examining the role of religion in government with out mentioning god?

What I dont get and this goes as well to all those who agree with the supreme court about removing the 10 commandment is this. The reason not to say god.

"He said it would offend others in class," Hauf, 34, told the Daily Press.

How is it offensive? Maybe your face offends me. How does the 10 commandments offend anyone in a courtroom?

[Papewaio]

A bit intellectually dishonest (pre-empting the answer of the question) of the lecturer by making an essay of the role of religion in government, but excluding God from the analysis.

[Phatose]

Insufficient information. It tells us what she handed in. It doesn't tell us what the assignment actually was though. The title was likely her own choice.

[Ser Clegane]

How do you do a paper on "In God We Trust," examining the role of religion in government with out mentioning god?

Perhaps that was supposed to be the challenge of the paper

[sharrukin]

How about a paper on 'Slavery And The American Experience' just don't mention african-americans? Some of the neo-nazi's might get offended if african-americans are mentioned so we just won't mention them. There is no logic to that kind of thinking. This is supposed to be a place of learning so how can choosing deliberate ignorance be an acceptable policy? The belief in god did have something to do with the establishment of the American government and to demand that it not be discussed is lunacy.

"in the letter what Shefchik wrote to Bethany when she was getting approval for her subject matter:

"I have one limiting factor – no mention of big 'G' gods, i.e., one, true god argumentation," Shefchik stated."

This professor should be fired and replaced with one capable of dealing with diversity, and contrasting points of view.

[GodsPetMonkey]

First lesson of tertiary education.... when the professor gives you an instruction, follow it.

She gets an F for thinking she was smarter then the marker, how she did it is inconsequential.

If I'm told to write a paper on an area of law but can only us primary material, then decide to quote text books and digests, I know what to expect. In the real world doing the exact oposite of what your boss tells you is not desirable, isn't college all about teaching for the real world?

[sharrukin]

First lesson of tertiary education.... when the professor gives you an instruction, follow it.

She gets an F for thinking she was smarter then the marker, how she did it is inconsequential.

If I'm told to write a paper on an area of law but can only us primary material, then decide to quote text books and digests, I know what to expect. In the real world doing the exact oposite of what your boss tells you is not desirable, isn't college all about teaching for the real world?

Actually wasn't that the way of things until Aristotle came along and shook things up? He got some Johnstown kool-aid for that stunt but haven't we progressed a little since then? Doing exactly what you are told by your superiors is not a very good lesson IMHO. You should be taught to think as well.

[Tribesman]

but it seems like every week a new story breaks about this kind of stuff...
Yes , its amazing that it seems like every week a new story breaks about a student who is so stupid that they fail a paper as they cannot follow written instructions .

[GodsPetMonkey]

Actually wasn't that the way of things until Aristotle came along and shook things up? He got some Johnstown kool-aid for that stunt but haven't we progressed a little since then? Doing exactly what you are told by your superiors is not a very good lesson IMHO. You should be taught to think as well.

Your welcome to think, no one will stop you, just answer the question asked, following the instructions given. Universities these days are little more the degree factories... the actual thinking doesn't come until postgrad-by-thesis studies.

It isn't called coursework for nothing. Deviate from the course, try to be a rebel, whatever, but every student knows what happens (the number of times lecturers/professors tell students to read and follow the instructions carefully).
IMHO being able to detach your viewpoint from something is a very important skill, your going to deal with a large number of people with totally different viewpoints on a variety of issues. I have had both extreme left and right lecturers, and while in most cases politics has no place in the classroom, I tailor my assignment and exam answers to what they want (of course, they always say don't write for your lecturer, write for yourself). It has not let me down yet.

[Fragony]

This is weird, and pretty arrogant.

[Don Corleone]

First lesson of tertiary education.... when the professor gives you an instruction, follow it.

She gets an F for thinking she was smarter then the marker, how she did it is inconsequential.

If I'm told to write a paper on an area of law but can only us primary material, then decide to quote text books and digests, I know what to expect. In the real world doing the exact oposite of what your boss tells you is not desirable, isn't college all about teaching for the real world?

I have to agree with GPM on this one. Let alone university, I had to write a paper in high school where I had to explain why the United States was completely responsible for the Cold War. Anything breaking from that thesis would not receive a passing grade. The next month, I had to write one on why the Soviet Union was completely responsible.

And it's not like the teacher said "Go write a paper on religion". She submitted a topic and the professor told her explicitly "okay, but don't mention God". I'm a Christian, I value my right to express my views, but this seems pretty open and shut to me.

[ShadesPanther]

If you teacher/ Professor tells you to do an essay on a certain topic but do not talk about hthis or that. and you include that obviously you will be marked down.

The only reason this story made the news is because it was about leaving out God. If it was about something else noone would care. It doesn't go into specifics about the event. I would think that he told them to write whatever about a certain area but don't include God or a few other things. It really seems like its her fault for not following instuctions but you would need more information to be sure.

[BDC]

I hardly think one rubbish teacher at a community college is either surprising or newsworthy. Must have been really deperate for stories.

[Steppe Merc]

Heh, can't wait for college!

Though she's pretty stupid if she was told not to write God in a paper, and did it anyway, especially if she knew it would result in a bad grade...

[JAG]

Student Gets F Grade For Mentioning God

Quite right too!

[Don Corleone]

Exactly. One of the best papers I've ever written was an attack on cultural centricity, and the infliction of cultural woes upon indigenous peoples throughout the world (basically, a 'white people are responsible for all the world's problems argument). I didn't believe a word of it, but it didn't matter what I thought... the professor had made it pretty clear that was how she felt, and that was all she was going to accept. I got an A+ and she asked me if I had ever thought of moving out of engineering and into anthropology. Yeah, right.

Edit: Oh yeah, she almost took a swing at me at the campus bar 6 mos. later. She had brought some of her students in on a Friday afternoon and pulled me over to their table, saying "this is somebody who really gets it". I told her my little secret, that I had written what I thought she wanted to hear, and if she had asked me to written a paper declaring the virtues and joys of life under Stalin, I would have done that too. She got gray and sent me away from the table.... sheesh. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Exactly. One of the best papers I've ever written was an attack on cultural centricity, and the infliction of cultural woes upon indigenous peoples throughout the world (basically, a 'white people are responsible for all the world's problems argument). I didn't believe a word of it, but it didn't matter what I thought... the professor had made it pretty clear that was how she felt, and that was all she was going to accept. I got an A+ and she asked me if I had ever thought of moving out of engineering and into anthropology. Yeah, right.

It looks like everyone here is in favor of liberal bias in the schools. Dons example is a horrible thing. Just give them what they want. Talk about creating mind numbed robots. I can imagine them asking everyone to write an article on why abortion should be illegal as an assignment ........not.

[Don Corleone]

It looks like everyone here is in favor of liberal bias in the schools. Dons example is a horrible thing. Just give them what they want. Talk about creating mind numbed robots. I can imagine them asking everyone to write an article on why abortion should be illegal as an assignment ........not.

It is a horrible thing. But I'm not going to spend $40,000 and get an F on my transcript because some leftist professor has an axe to grind. If conservatives were that concerned about intellectual honesty at universities, they'd go into these departments. By going for electrical engineering (money, career advancement) I'm just as guilty in the 'why' of the problem.

Look, there's the way things should be and there's the way things are. You can make the argument that in the ideal world, all viewpoints would be equally respected but

1) We don't live in an ideal world
2) Leftists control the academic world, and when you're on their turf, you gotta play by their rules and
3) Part of learning to be objective in making your arguments is to be able to understand and present the arguments made against you. How could I claim "White people are not responsible for all of the world's problems" unless I understand and can present the arguments for why they are?

[Hurin_Rules]

It looks like everyone here is in favor of liberal bias in the schools. Dons example is a horrible thing. Just give them what they want. Talk about creating mind numbed robots. I can imagine them asking everyone to write an article on why abortion should be illegal as an assignment ........not.

No, everyone's in favour of expecting to get a bad mark when your paper fails to meet the assignments requirements.

The article needs to give us more information on this. What, exactly, did the assignment require? Was it a paper on religion and government, or was that just what the student chose to write on? Granted, asking for a paper on that topic and requiring students not to mention big G gods would be tough, but well within the scope of a professor's prerogative. I wouldn't do it, but I can understand why: professors often ask students to argue a particular way, or to use only particular sources, etc. Now, the thing that I find interesting is that the professor said no Big-G god 'argumentation'. This is far less restrictive. It may be that the professor just didn't want people saying, 'Well, there should be no separation of Church and State because God says so.' That is an appeal to faith, not a logical or historical argument, and I can surely understand why the professor wanted to avoid that.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But I'm not going to spend $40,000 and get an F on my transcript because some leftist professor has an axe to grind

Thats my point. I hear students call into some of the radio shows all the time adking for advice and they tell them if the grade is really important to you that leaves you little choice.

If conservatives were that concerned about intellectual honesty at universities, they'd go into these departments. By going for electrical engineering (money, career advancement) I'm just as guilty in the 'why' of the problem.

Yup but as you say their conservatives. First off they want money and secondly conservatives arent very welcome in this community. When the make education a competive field where the best proffesors get the most money you will see conservatives flocking there. What conservative would want to join the teachers union as it is now?

[Shambles]

I dont think its right for People to supress religion, Neither is it right for people to Use religion as an exquse for being Ass,

So i guess there both wrong,
But As many have said,,

If some 1 tells you write a essay about fruit and there usage with pastry.
and also tell you... but dont use any fruit names.

And then you start of with,

AN apple is the most commeon fruit used with Pastry,

I recon your going to get an F....

Just becous it happens to be the word god that your not allowed to use is irelivant,

If your told to do something in a particular way, but you dont know how to do it without using a word your not allowed to use (41 times) when every 1 els did.
Then you should get the worst marks available.

The fact that the word happens to be GOD is just something people can latch on to,
And attempt to sympathyse with,

But in all reality,
She failed to write the paper correctly. when every one els did,
Shes just a dumb ass.

ShambleS

[Hurin_Rules]

When the make education a competive field where the best proffesors get the most money you will see conservatives flocking there. What conservative would want to join the teachers union as it is now?

Not sure exactly what you're talking about Gawain, but in all the universities I've been at the best professors do get better paid. Salaries at colleges vary widely--someone at Harvard makes way more than someone at a tiny state college. On top of that, most universities have a system of merit pay, where you get more money the more you publish or the better you teach.

[Don Corleone]

He's not talking about competition AMONG academics. Of course that exists, to some extent. It's good to get tenure, and be department head. He's talking about how competitive is it to be a professor versus applying that degree out in the marektplace. I could teach electronics and make a certain amount, that'd be the safe route. Or, I can take my degree and go work for a semiconductor company. Much more competitive, but the rewards are much better.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Not sure exactly what you're talking about Gawain, but in all the universities I've been at the best professors do get better paid. Salaries at colleges vary widely--someone at Harvard makes way more than someone at a tiny state college. On top of that, most universities have a system of merit pay, where you get more money the more you publish or the better you teach.

They dont have tenure in Canada? Also what makes a good teacher? How do they determine that? If theres plenty of money in it whats your explination of why there are so few conservtives in that field? Do college proffesors start out as teachers in HS for example. That would explain a lot. That is where the lack of competition is really obvious and prevelant.

[Hurin_Rules]

They dont have tenure in Canada? Also what makes a good teacher? How do they determine that? If theres plenty of money in it whats your explination of why there are so few conservtives in that field? Do college proffesors start out as teachers in HS for example. That would explain a lot. That is where the lack of competition is really obvious and prevelant.

Yes, they have tenure in Canada (I know, I got it in March).

I'm not sure what makes a good teacher, but how we are evaluated is mostly by our students. These submit written evaluations of their professors at the end of each class (you can see something similar to this online at Ratemyprofessor.com, if you like). They are usually graded on various aspects of their performance on anything from a 4 to a 10 point scale. Sometimes this can be a bit of a popularity contest, so often the head or chair of a department will also sit in on a class and evaluate the professor as well. Research and service is obviously easier to evaluate.

College teachers generally do not start out as HS teachers; the two professions are more or less completely separate. A professor Generally starts out as a Teaching Assistant, marking papers, running seminars, and then gradually moves up to teaching classes and whole courses. So there is intense competition amongst professors to get jobs, and then to get jobs at the best schools, where the best pay is and the brightest people are.

I can't answer why there are so few conservatives in academia. There are in some fields: religious studies and business/management, for example. But many in the sciences can make more money in the private sector. Those who stay in academia generally do so because they like teaching, like the lifestyle, don't like having bosses or enjoy studying knowledge for knowledge's sake.

[Dâriûsh]

Sometimes, these ardent atheists seem almost like Islamic militants waging an anti-God jihad...

[Ronin]

seems to me the student got an F because he ignored the indications for the work he was suposed to do.......the fact that those indications mentioned a certain deity is a minor detail.....bottom line if you don´t do the work that the teacher wants you to do you´ll fail, i learned that somewere around the first grade, it seems that some people can get all the way to college before they realize that...

[Proletariat]

Sometimes, these ardent atheists seem almost like Islamic militants waging an anti-God jihad...

Absolutely. Anti-religious groups are just as contemptible as evangelists of any faith.

That being said, this student is a self-righteous moron and I hope her grades are too poor to allow her to gain vocation in any field where direction and guidance need to be respected.