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Thread: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

  1. #1
    MediŠval Auctoriso Member Member TheSilverKnight's Avatar
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    Default Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    First off, I am a political newbie, so don't flame me too much First ever political thread here

    I've been reading stuff recently about how Berwick-upon-Tweed is often included in legislative matters as part of Northumberland, regardless of half of the town being in England and half being in Scotland.

    So, my question is, should Berwick-upon-Tweed be absorbed legislatively into England or into Scotland to be part of that country, or remain upon the border in two countries?

    I expect Brits to answer only, since they are the top authority (like me! ), but any Americans who know anything of the situation (or who don't and wish to learn) are welcome also!

    Some links to consider -
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/3727046.stm

    Above is from BBC news about the debate

    From Wikipedia, Article upon Berwick-upon-Tweed

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick-upon-Tweed

    From Wikipedia, Wales and Berwick act of 1746

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_and_Berwick_Act_1746

    From Wikipedia, Local Government Act of 1972

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Government_Act_1972

    Please discuss, and please keep the discussions civil! Thank you

    I expect to hear many interesting views upon the subject, but I shall post my ideas after I see some.

    Cheers all -
    TheSilverKnight
    Last edited by TheSilverKnight; 07-01-2005 at 03:29.
    "I'm like the Vikings -- I come here, I steal your women, your booze, your dough, and then I go back home." ~ Wiz
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    Berwick upon Tweed should be in Scotland, after all Berwickshire is.

    I did my undergrad dissertation on medieval Berwick and the Anglo Scottish wars. It swapped hands a bunch of times from the 13th century onwads but had been Scottish (well, it had been Northumbrian before that, Bernician before that(if a settlement was there that early and I think it probably was) and Celtic Bernician before that) from the early 11th century onwards.

    It had also been one of several important southern Scottish towns that acted as the Scottish capital at one time or another.
    Last edited by Taffy_is_a_Taff; 07-01-2005 at 04:11.

  3. #3
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    It's in England, but their footy team play in the SPL .....

    Interesting fact about Berwick, it was at war with Imperial Russia (and the USSR) until about ten years ago. Because of the peculiar situation that it inhabits legally, when the Crimean War ended it wasn't put on the armistice documents. So although England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales signed up and peace was declared....Berwick carried on the fight for another 150 years.

    It was legally placed in England a couple of years back ..... I think they had a vote on it, and because of the Scottish Parliament that they would have to fund they 'went south' so to speak.

    Various proclamations promulgated before 1885 referred to "England, Scotland and the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed". One such was the declaration of war against Russia in 1853, which Queen Victoria signed as "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, Berwick-upon-Tweed and all British Dominions". But when the Treaty of Paris (1856) was signed to conclude the war, "Berwick-upon-Tweed" was missed out. Was it still at war with Russia or not? In 1966 a Soviet official waited upon the Mayor of Berwick, Councillor Robert Knox, and a peace treaty was formally signed. Mr Knox is reputed to have said "Please tell the Russian people that they can sleep peacefully in their beds
    Well it was a bit more than 10 years but the nub of truth was there...
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 07-01-2005 at 12:07.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    Berwick only became part of England in 1972. I don't think there was any popular referendum on it.

    Berwick is on the north bank of the Tweed. This is the Scottish/English border. Except for the stretch of river to the south of Berwick.

  5. #5
    Caged for your safety Member RabidGibbon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    Perhaps partition is the solution? All the english in Berwick upon Tweed could be herded into the new town of South Berwick, and all the scots could go live in North Berwick?

  6. #6
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    It should be split in two. Although it would get a bit tricky if the Union ceases to be...
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  7. #7
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    England
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    MediŠval Auctoriso Member Member TheSilverKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    I think it should be split in two, one half's legislation goes to Northumberland, England, and the other half goes to Berwickshire in Scotland, imo.

    Would make it easier for both Scots and English in the town, since most probly have mixed loyalties
    "I'm like the Vikings -- I come here, I steal your women, your booze, your dough, and then I go back home." ~ Wiz
    "Play RTW and wait till 1,000 people die and look at them from above. Then tell me it was worth the oil." - Byzantine Prince

  9. #9
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    I have absolutely no clue....

    Referendum anyone ??
    Last edited by bmolsson; 07-02-2005 at 04:33.

  10. #10
    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    Im no expert on the situation, but it sounds like the people of the town should vote and decide if they are part of england or scotland.

  11. #11
    MediŠval Auctoriso Member Member TheSilverKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    Bump

    Any other replies?
    "I'm like the Vikings -- I come here, I steal your women, your booze, your dough, and then I go back home." ~ Wiz
    "Play RTW and wait till 1,000 people die and look at them from above. Then tell me it was worth the oil." - Byzantine Prince

  12. #12
    Chief Sniffer Senior Member ichi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    I voted Gah! because I thought that Berwick-upon-Tweed was when professor-types sewed leather patches on the elbows of their wool jackets.

    But I'm just a Yank, so . . .

    ichi
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  13. #13
    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    i cant vote as my way ist a choice, simply let the imhabitants vote on which country their town should be in.

  14. #14
    These titles are too shor Member TonkaToys's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    It should be an independent state that has to persuade the citizens of the Union to allow it to join. Or it could bypass the UK and go straight into Europe.

  15. #15
    Member Member Efrem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed...England or Scotland?

    I recon it should be a separate legistlative area.
    Viva La Rasa!!!

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