Re: Anti Americanism
Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: Anti Americanism
Blairs a great man in my book so I must disagree with your premise.
Really ? So which of his policies do you agree with ?
Or is it just the fact that he was willing to take his country to war on the basis of a pack of lies, with no clear achievable plans , against the wishes of the majority of his population , that makes him a "great man"
Re: Anti Americanism
I think for people on both sides of the pond we need to stop feeling like our leaders think like we do. Simply Put They don't. Although men like Chirac and Schroeder may have put a damper in quite a few of America's plans it was in their best interest to do so. Just because Bush and Chirac share a grudge doesn't mean that I have to share the same grudge as my leader, or even have close to the same Opinion. I have to admit however, that I dislike Chirac, this however comes from differing aesthetic view points than actual hatred for him. He has done nothing to personally to demean me. I think people over in Europe should think the same of Bush. I think both sides need to step away from the thought of "the opinion of the leader is the opinion of the people." While some people may have the exact same views as that of our leaders, it isn't a general opinion of the masses. As a matter of fact recent polls show that Bush is getting a 58% Dissaproval Rating as far as the War on Terrorism (and it continues to grow), however he is getting a 64% Approval Rating on our economy. I am not suggesting that we get rid of our leaders, that would just lead to chaos. But I do suggest that the masses and media by and large should let the cloak and dagger schemes go in peace and let the politicians kill each other.
Re: Anti Americanism
Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie
Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
Re: Anti Americanism
Sweden needs it. Even more rediculous then Holland if you ask me, a solid economy just masks the consequences of utter bullshit. These arrogant leftist pricks always forget to ask if we really want what they have in mind. Euro, EU+Turkey, immigration, screw the left.Originally Posted by Radier
Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie
Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
Re: Anti Americanism
Jag I accused us of being anti european. Where do you come up with this stuff? I said we are no different than you are.Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: Anti Americanism
Was more aimed at PJ than you Gawain, I understood what you meant.Jag I accused us of being anti european. Where do you come up with this stuff? I said we are no different than you are.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: Anti Americanism
Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'
(No, not Irish descendents who are angry. Americans who are aiding Europe's enemies for it's own sake.)
Ridiculous.
Re: Anti Americanism
I think you missed something. When it comes to Euro and EU, those parties against it here in Sweden is on the left. Or green.
Sadly, I suspect that Reinfeldt is a very poor choise, he seems to be unusually little in tuch with reality, even for a politician. I think Persson should have resigned when he speculated about it though, he has been there too long.Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Anti Americanism
This is the way it appears to me:
Europe has a long and storied history, with many of the countries rising and falling in power and status over time. Britain, France, Spain, and Germany as examples each have been the dominant world power at one time or another.
It is true that America has risen to be the dominant world power for right now. And we will experience a decline, make no mistake. China will probably be next on the world stage, much to our chagrin.
Here is my point: It appears that some European countries are resentful of the current balance of power with the U.S. as the "Alpha male" in the pack. They think Americans are arrogant because they know that America will eventually decline in power but most Americans do not. It seems to me that the only country that does not hold this resentment is England. It seems to me that England just accepts that status quo and accepts itself as a great world power, though not the current "Alpha Male". France, Germany, and others are like the weaker dogs in the pack, nipping at the heels of the leader simply because they want to be the big dog.
I am well aware that America will not be the dominant power forever. I believe that most Americans do not view this as true. There is a sort of ethnocentricism in the U.S., where many believe that our inherent "goodness" gives us a birthright to being the world Superpower.
Perhaps the British share this type of ethnocentricism as well. The power of Britain was long felt throughout the world, and I am sure the British have a similar self-image. Same with France, only the French are more whiney about it. Same with Germany, only their national identity still seems to suffer from their national history.
U.S. ethnocentricism is also greatly influenced by the fact that we were never a dictatorship, as most of europe had been at one time or another. Our national heritage greatly affects our national identity, and help us to "see ourselves" in the way that we do. I believe this is probably the same in all countries.
This may explain our belief that we have the right to remove those in power who threaten us and the free world: to remove threats before it is too late. It also explains why much of Europe does not necessarily believe in this strategy. European countries are not self-assured in their 'inherent national goodness' like Americans are because of their history. Thus the perception of arrogance: "Oh you Americans think you are so perfect!"
I do not agree that America necessarily knows best. I am just aware that this is likely what causes this American identity. The self-perception of America will certainly lead to its decline in power, since it will not take emerging powers as seriously as it should, or it will percieve another nation's rise in power as a threat. Perfect example: China.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein
Re: Anti Americanism
According to some polls, he is now leading the largest party in Sweden. The increased votes for Moderaterna is due to him being more liberal. The right wing party as for now would more likely be KDS.
Re: Anti Americanism
I am happy to see that Taffy reads and speaks English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Czech, Slovenian, Portuguese, Dutch, and all other European languages which allow him to speak of the European Media.
By the way, I went in the US in my young days; I liked the Americans I met, and I worked with American in Iraq and Bosnia, but I disagree with the last move of the American actual policy… AND I don’t mix-up American people with the US policy and Administration… I am against the Fuhrer Principe.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Anti Americanism
Our middle is quite filled with parties nowadays. 5 out of 7
I'm aware that the odds for a borgelig regering after the next election is quite high.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: Anti Americanism
But even that party would be considered leftwinged by an American
From what I have seen on various websites and news its not that rare to call fellow Americans an "Anti-American" just because they criticize the system so I have no doubt some would consider Europeans even more anti-American. But I don't know how widespread this tendency is really.
CBR
Re: Anti Americanism
... yeah woho, privetisation (sp?), taxcuts, lesser rights for workers, weakened unions. The Speaches hold by the rightwingers here sounds more like something from a fairytale. Specially "Maud" sounds so naiv its almost laughable.
As "Vänster partiet" and "Social Democraterna" are loosing voters it might result in a rightwing gov. here in sweden wich would result in more (young) leftwingers will just turn to organistions like RKU and AFA and so on. And so, the anti-americanism would increase since many of those extreme leftwing organistions are driven by a blind hatred towards USA.
*sigh* just talking about the future of Sweden makes me depressed.
One can just hope that voters turn to Miljöpartiet (Green party) instead!
Re: Anti Americanism
There will never be a right wing government in Sweden. A liberal one at the most. Swedes are so brain washed with social democracy so it will take another 100 years to was that away.
The sad thing is that there are no real right parties in Sweden. On the far right you only find racists, nazists or religious nutjobs. The capitalists in Sweden is a dying breed, hunted like English foxes.....
Re: Anti Americanism
Not really true, stats show that the rich earn more and more in sweden while the low and mid income stay the same. You can hardly claim that the rich capitalists are dying here.
And to say that we are brainwashed by social democracy? nha, even us in the middle (I see myself as in the middle) and many on the left hate social democracy.
Many of my friends are either Green or really really left. I have a few friends that are rightwingers, but they dont evend are to say so in our pressance.
Re: Anti Americanism
There is even a blog documenting the anti-Americanism of Le Monde:
http://lemondewatch.blogspot.com/
actually it's about the anti-Americanism of the French media in general but focuses on Le Monde.
update: here's something about Der Spiegel printing an article that annoyed and misrepresented people in what seems to be an attempt at inducing negative attitudes about the U.S. :http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/france-06.htm
Update2: a website about the German media:
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog...ls_antiam.html
Last edited by Taffy_is_a_Taff; 07-03-2005 at 14:47.
Re: Anti Americanism
Most of them are leaving so they will survive...
Not at all. Nobody hates Social democracy. People do hate Göran Persson, but that is another story.
There are no real communists in Sweden. Just some lost souls, pissed off on the monarchy....Many of my friends are either Green or really really left. I have a few friends that are rightwingers, but they dont evend are to say so in our pressance.
Re: Anti Americanism
Brenus: I may not read all their media (and who would have the time to)
but I do sometimes have the basic idea behind certain articlles explained to me.
I have lived or worked with People from throughout the U.K., Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria and Poland. I got their view points (seriously, most of these have been more than 1 person representing their groups).
So, the newspaper thing: mostly I have had people from those groups bring attention to articles written in German or French. I apologise then if I do not get access to them everyday.
In that case let me say: the U.K. and Irish media as well as (I have been led to believe by their citizens) German and French media are guilty of what I was saying. Those countries represent almost half the population of the E.U.
Re: Anti Americanism
Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: Anti Americanism
Gawain, you can bet on that!
Did you ever ask yourself why Europe is against the war?
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