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Thread: Anti Americanism

  1. #1
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Anti Americanism

    Many Americans are always complaining about socalled AA in Europe. That is silly. Most Europeans do not agree with the way America makes his 'war against terror'. They have reasons for that. You can accept or not. You can even ignore them. But that is no AA.
    Most Americans do not seem to be interested in that reasons. It is much easier to have their persecution complex.

    - I cannot see any antiamericanism from Germans, French or Russians in the posts here
    - I know that there are prejudices on both side of the ocean.
    - I am aware that there are Americans that do not support Bush as well as there are Europeans that support Bush
    - There are silly people everywhere. But the silly people in Europe have to work hard to reach the level of this 'freedom fires' guy.
    - If Americans like to go on looking for new enemies everywherethen they constrain the fight against terrorism. Bin Ladn will be very happy about that.
    - Do not tell me that Europe does not support the fight against terror. This week two German soldiers died in Afganisthan.

    Show me were is real AA in Europe! I'll do my best to fix it.

  2. #2
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Some of its all in the prespective. Some of it is helped along by the news media in the United States. Here are several articles from the media on it.

    http://www.time.com/time/europe/maga...ver/story.html

    http://www.hudsonreview.com/BawerSp04.html

    Haven't read the complete article but the skimming it - struck my interest.

    http://www.nixoncenter.org/Program%2...no20antiam.htm

    Mr. Kennedy noted that, based on extensive polling research of Europeans, there is little evidence to suggest that either the cultural or the economic anti-Americanism persist across Europe today. The real issues are political. Europeans perceive that America is by far the predominant power in the world, and this shapes the way they look world events. Mr. Kennedy cited the oft-mentioned fact that many in Europe perceived at least some measure of causality or association between the events of September 11th and American foreign policy. While many Americans were shocked and discouraged by the number of Europeans holding this view (55%), Mr. Kennedy asserted that this is not necessarily an example of anti-Americanism. Rather, because many Europeans "view the United States as having almost unlimited power, it’s easy to think that almost anything in the world is somehow connected with the use of it". Furthermore, the US has long been the country to which many Europeans felt the closest or towards which they had the warmest feelings. Mr. Kennedy also noted that the two sides have very different perceptions of what UN involvement in international actions means, particularly with regard to Iraq. In Europe, it connotes approval, sanction and legitimacy whereas in the US it implies allies, friends, and assistance. Thus, UN involvement in any campaign against Iraq is the most important factor for most Europeans.

    Preceptions upon preceptions would be the answer I think.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Awwwww we euro's love to wine don't we. We like to see ourselves as intellectually superior to these stupid yanks with their hollywood and MacDonalds, we got culture after all. It annoys the crap out of me, america is the best friend europe ever had. Most anti-americanism exists with those that love to use very long words, don't listen to them since they don't make sense anyway.

  4. #4
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    I'm not anti-American at all and I find many things incredible and admirable about America, but if America gives me reason to complain then I will do so. Unfortunately, it does this quite often.

    At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
    France
    Germany

    Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred .
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  5. #5
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
    At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
    France
    Germany

    Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred .
    Why? Only because they have great football teams?

  6. #6
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    As I have said before, I have never experienced much anti Americanism, and when I do I along with many, many others are always there to stand up for America. For the most part it definately is a case of us not liking the current administration, but that fact not stopping us liking the US people and culture.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  7. #7
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    ...
    Preceptions upon preceptions would be the answer I think.
    What is preception. Could not find that word!

    What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source )
    They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
    At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

    P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday

  8. #8
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?
    The US is the most diversified nation on the face of the planet. We got em all. The good the bad and the ugly.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  9. #9

    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus
    What is preception. Could not find that word!

    What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source )
    They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
    At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

    P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday

    I complain cos they think they can tell The world what to do,
    When they cant controll them selfs.

    They produce 9x more polution than any other country,
    So they refused to go to world summit as they knew there polution was ruining planet.

    They are arrogant loud and annoying,

    They start wars for no reason.

    They say were gonna get osama,
    CANT
    So decide We will get sadam then, or we will look like Idiots.


    Now dont get me wrong,
    Most Amreicans as individuals are great,
    But A lot are just annoying.
    its just unfortunate that We tend to see the annoying cretenous americans more often than the decent americans,

    Every where has good and bad,
    Unfortunatly when your out side of america looking in all you can see are the bad people,
    the good people are hard to find, But when you do, They are Good people in deed.

    ShambleS
    Last edited by Shambles; 07-01-2005 at 16:30.

  10. #10
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    The US is the most diversified nation on the face of the planet. We got em all. The good the bad and the ugly.
    This maybe the reason why it confuses people from the outside. And why everybody can find something he does not like.

    By the way: this is one of my favorite movies

  11. #11
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus
    What is preception. Could not find that word!
    Lets try this spelling perception

    One of these days I will learn to spell - but don't hold your breath.

    What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source )
    They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
    At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?
    A lot of it depends upon what part of the country you find yourself. Parts of the Nation are extremely religous - other parts are less. One must take a sample from many different parts of this nation to get an adequate idea on what the religous level is.
    P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday
    Why thank you
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  12. #12
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
    At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
    France
    Germany

    Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred .
    Why? Cause we pound you into the dust at fussball?

  13. #13
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Well I dont know about anti Americanisnm in Europe but I hope its not as bad as the anti Europeans over here. We dont hate you people just your governments. If you people have half the contempt for our government that we have for all of yours then we are all in trouble. Yes Im generalising here. Surely most real liberals here love your leaders.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  14. #14

    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Surely most real liberals here love your leaders.
    Most free thinking rational people despise their leaders , but they despise the oppositions leaders even more .
    Look at Britain or France for prime examples .

  15. #15
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well I dont know about anti Americanisnm in Europe but I hope its not as bad as the anti Europeans over here. We dont hate you people just your governments.
    That bad? How come. Europe + USA = one.

  16. #16
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    In Sweden there is ALOT of anti-americanism, but do not fear. I will allways stay loyal to those who stand up for freedome.

    One thing you ought to know is that swedish media shows a very weird picture of Busch. It´s not a coinsident people hate Busch over here...
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  17. #17
    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Radier
    One thing you ought to know is that swedish media shows a very weird picture of Busch. It´s not a coinsident people hate Busch over here...
    No Bush is just like that

  18. #18

    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Many Europeans hate America. Its a mostly due to jealousy.

    The "trash" of Europe came over to America and became much greater than Europe in terms of military, economics, ect. That'll make anybody mad.

  19. #19
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Most free thinking rational people despise their leaders , but they despise the oppositions leaders even more .
    Well I dont despise Bush but I sure despise Chirac. Blairs a great man in my book so I must disagree with your premise. Then again you probably will accuse e of not being a free thinking rational person

    We call the democrats the party of europe
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    I am a pure European. I am french, live and work in England. I don't hate the US. I am still amazed when people speak of Europe or US as one identity. When I went in the US, I travelled from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. And I understood. United States of America. Plural.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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  21. #21
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Anti Americanism, Anti Europanism, Anti Semitism, Anti Islamism etc

    It's all nothing but paranoia. There are no anti against any specific group or religion today. It's only used as an excuse in isolated incidents or to create an excuse to create an isolated incident. It's all about law enforcement. I thought we learned our lesson in history.....

  22. #22
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Many Europeans hate America. Its a mostly due to jealousy.

    The "trash" of Europe came over to America and became much greater than Europe in terms of military, economics, ect. That'll make anybody mad.
    I sense anti-Europeanism.

    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  23. #23

    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    I sense anti-Europeanism.
    Granted someone who was born in Europe could be anti-europe - but not someone who spends so much time and money over there.

    Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.

  24. #24
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.
    Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  25. #25

    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Blairs a great man in my book so I must disagree with your premise.
    Really ? So which of his policies do you agree with ?

    Or is it just the fact that he was willing to take his country to war on the basis of a pack of lies, with no clear achievable plans , against the wishes of the majority of his population , that makes him a "great man"

  26. #26
    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    I think for people on both sides of the pond we need to stop feeling like our leaders think like we do. Simply Put They don't. Although men like Chirac and Schroeder may have put a damper in quite a few of America's plans it was in their best interest to do so. Just because Bush and Chirac share a grudge doesn't mean that I have to share the same grudge as my leader, or even have close to the same Opinion. I have to admit however, that I dislike Chirac, this however comes from differing aesthetic view points than actual hatred for him. He has done nothing to personally to demean me. I think people over in Europe should think the same of Bush. I think both sides need to step away from the thought of "the opinion of the leader is the opinion of the people." While some people may have the exact same views as that of our leaders, it isn't a general opinion of the masses. As a matter of fact recent polls show that Bush is getting a 58% Dissaproval Rating as far as the War on Terrorism (and it continues to grow), however he is getting a 64% Approval Rating on our economy. I am not suggesting that we get rid of our leaders, that would just lead to chaos. But I do suggest that the masses and media by and large should let the cloak and dagger schemes go in peace and let the politicians kill each other.

  27. #27
    Member Member Radier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie

    Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
    I support the Pike and Musket:Total War



    Also Europa Barbarorum supporter!

  28. #28
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .
    Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.

    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  29. #29
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Quote Originally Posted by Radier
    Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie

    Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
    Sweden needs it. Even more rediculous then Holland if you ask me, a solid economy just masks the consequences of utter bullshit. These arrogant leftist pricks always forget to ask if we really want what they have in mind. Euro, EU+Turkey, immigration, screw the left.

  30. #30
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti Americanism

    Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.
    Jag I accused us of being anti european. Where do you come up with this stuff? I said we are no different than you are.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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