What are you thinking for TURKS

[Advo-san]

Not quite. There was first the Gok "Blue" Turks who took over Central Asia and Transoxia. Then they split into the Eastern and Western Khanates, who had little to do with the Byzantines, as the Sassanids were in between them. They were broken by the Arab invasion, then they split into many tribes. Most stayed on the steppe. Only evantually did Seljuq take his tribe and settle in Asia Minor. So they hardly one day decided to take over the Byzantines, as most Turks had no intrest in the Byzantines. Only one tribe (well, then Osman's tribe...) wanted to, take over the Byzantines. And that was only after the breaking up of the larger Turkish Empire.

Wiz, Orda, feel free to correct my inacuracies, I tried as best as I could to explain how it was, but it is a bit confusing trying to explain the difference between the Turks who occupied what present day Turkey is around, and the Turkish people in general...


How is it bait? It is certaintly a very good interpratation of history. You may not agree, but I see no reason why anyone would be offended, or feel baited.

Indeed, the Byzantine army, such as it was, would never have been as good as it was without the Turks to support them, and influence them. Indeed, at the end of Constantinople, many prefered the rule of the Turks to the Western Catholics.
The Turks were instremental in bringing much advance to Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe. Their military styles were superior to their enemies, and their art and style of dressing was seen in very many places.

Have no doubt, turkish dresscode was Arabian-style, their stateship Byzantine-made, their fighting skills kurdish-powered (remember Saladin).

[Advo-san]

The Turks (well the western ones as far as I know) are the nicest people of the Mediterranean.



~Wiz

You should read some United Nations GA Resolutions, and then tell me whether the Turks are the nicest people on the mediterrainian.. Or you can ask ask the Cypriots.. Boy, do they know turkish kindness.....

[The Wizard]

You obviously don't know any Turks. Do I care much for their politics? Yes, enough to be very careful in regard of their wanting to enter the EU. But do I care enough for their politics to point out each and every Turk as barbaric and evil? No.

Open your eyes, if you dare to -- I know Turks from both the west (Edirne, Istanbul) and from the east (Trabzon); developed Turkey (west) and undeveloped, agricultural Turkey (Anadolu, Trabzon, east); and I can easily say they beat any other Mediterranean people hands down, and I know. They just have that great South American latino vibe that no other Mediterranean people has. And, oh, I've lived in South America and the Caribbean half my life, hell, I was born there, so I know what a latino vibe is.

Please, do not be biased towards people from another culture. It is the lack of this which puts Turks on number one amongst Mediterraneans for me. Although it must be said that Turks from the country (Anadolu, Trabzon) are far more prone to such activity than Turks from the western, developed part of Turkey.

Life is too short to spend hating people based on prejudice rather than experience, my friend.

The historical debate will come later... I have a birthday to enjoy and an EB preview to post first.



~Wiz

[Steppe Merc]

Have no doubt, turkish dresscode was Arabian-style, their stateship Byzantine-made, their fighting skills kurdish-powered (remember Saladin).

Dresscode, incorrect. Most Turks continued to wear the kaftan that they wore on the steppe, and their armor was also steppe style. Some of the upper classes adopted Arabic styles, but most of the horsearchers would have dressed the same as their brethren still on the steppe.
Statesmenship, well each Turkish government was different. As for the Kurds, no way in hell. The Turks were excellent warriors, and again, not all moved into Asia Minor! They were excellent warriors before Sala Al Hadin took over for a brief time, and continued to be. I don't know how the hell the Kurds have much of anything to do with the Turk's military powers...
And I have never understood why people are so close minded about the history of a piece of land that they live on.

[Orda Khan]

I would guess that Turkish Sipahi was asking for thoughts on Turkish military. The political arguements that have followed are Backroom material, not the greatest place for debate on the Org.

The Turks, whether settled or nomadic have a long, enduring history. IMO, I think the spread of Islam robbed them of their culture somewhat but was probably a factor in their military success

......Orda

[Advo-san]

You obviously don't know any Turks. Do I care much for their politics? Yes, enough to be very careful in regard of their wanting to enter the EU. But do I care enough for their politics to point out each and every Turk as barbaric and evil? No.

Open your eyes, if you dare to -- I know Turks from both the west (Edirne, Istanbul) and from the east (Trabzon); developed Turkey (west) and undeveloped, agricultural Turkey (Anadolu, Trabzon, east); and I can easily say they beat any other Mediterranean people hands down, and I know. They just have that great South American latino vibe that no other Mediterranean people has. And, oh, I've lived in South America and the Caribbean half my life, hell, I was born there, so I know what a latino vibe is.

Please, do not be biased towards people from another culture. It is the lack of this which puts Turks on number one amongst Mediterraneans for me. Although it must be said that Turks from the country (Anadolu, Trabzon) are far more prone to such activity than Turks from the western, developed part of Turkey.

Life is too short to spend hating people based on prejudice rather than experience, my friend.

The historical debate will come later... I have a birthday to enjoy and an EB preview to post first.



~Wiz

How can u be so sure I don't know any Turks? The last 4 years I ve been 5 times in Turkey, not that this is any of your business, and I met a bunch of them.
U obviously don't know what the words invasion, occupation army, refugees, violation of international law and human rights mean. For you "this is all politics"; well it is not. It is every-day life for 200.000 Cypriots, not to mention Kurds and Armenians, and you 're talking about "latino-vibe" s***. As long as they are latino, they are fine people, is that so? Even though most of them, not all of them, agree with northern cyprus occupation. And what do you say about this? "Je m'en fou, this is all politics, they are latino, let's party!!" I m not debating any longer with a man who thinks latino-vibe does good for all wrong. Or thinks that another nation's suffering is "JUST politics", for crying out loud....

[Advo-san]

You obviously don't know any Turks. Do I care much for their politics? Yes, enough to be very careful in regard of their wanting to enter the EU. But do I care enough for their politics to point out each and every Turk as barbaric and evil? No.

Open your eyes, if you dare to -- I know Turks from both the west (Edirne, Istanbul) and from the east (Trabzon); developed Turkey (west) and undeveloped, agricultural Turkey (Anadolu, Trabzon, east); and I can easily say they beat any other Mediterranean people hands down, and I know. They just have that great South American latino vibe that no other Mediterranean people has. And, oh, I've lived in South America and the Caribbean half my life, hell, I was born there, so I know what a latino vibe is.

Please, do not be biased towards people from another culture. It is the lack of this which puts Turks on number one amongst Mediterraneans for me. Although it must be said that Turks from the country (Anadolu, Trabzon) are far more prone to such activity than Turks from the western, developed part of Turkey.

Life is too short to spend hating people based on prejudice rather than experience, my friend.

The historical debate will come later... I have a birthday to enjoy and an EB preview to post first.



~Wiz

Happy birthaday though

[Gregoshi]

Enough. Topic closed.