Which Roman Faction is Best?

[player1]

Ceres: 35% happiness, 10% law, 2.5% growth -This is the temple of fertility the best reason to have one of these around other than the population growth is because it gives the fruitly trait. This increases the chances of having children. It gives a lot of mystic reitnue members, the preistess of Ceres is like a doctor with a +1 to managment and influence.

Bacchus: 50% happiness, 10% law, 1% growth -The temple of fun, pound for pound the worst temple line in the game. The happiness bonus is over shadowed by the fact that any governor in the same city as a Bacchus temple turns into a drunken, perverted, letch. Even the retinues it hands out suck. The only good one is the preist and then just barely. The rest are of the drunken uncle type.

Jupiter: 35% happiness, 10% law, Arcani -This is the temple of leadership. By far the best temple the Julii get. It will breed a family member that is a good balance between governor and general.

My motto when playing Julii. If province has high fertility (natural growth) build Jupiter temple, if not Ceres.

As for Bacchus temple, only good thing about it is that it gives some cool retunue memebrer, including several that give bonus to spies and assassins. My strategy is to build it in some unimportant city that got 2000+ pop (segesta maybe?) and putting your worst general there. Then when when you get retinues just swap them to good generals.

The Scipii worship Saturn, Neptune and Vulcan.

Saturn: 25% happiness, 25% law, +1 weapons and armor, Arcani -The temple of law. It will make a decent governor. They most of them end up with a high secruity trait and a justice trait. The fact that it also give Arcani is a big plus.

Neptune: 25% happiness, 10% law, +1 weapons and armor, Corvus Quinquireme, Decere -The temple of the sea. This temple give traits that are similar in nature to the god it honours, bloodlust and anger. Not the best traits for a governor or a general. It's saving grace are this ships you can get.

Vulcan: 25% happiness, 10% law, +1 weapons and armor, +2XP -Temple of the forge. It can make a family a very good miner and engineer, but ugly as the north end of a pig going south. Just like Vulcan. The retinues given by the temple and the armour bonus more than make up for that. Amrourer, mining engineer and architecht are some of the retinue Vulcan gives.

My motto here, build usually Saturn, and Vulcan in strategic points (where you move army to be upgraded).

As for Nepture, it doesn't really give any VnVs and looks useless before 4th level, but there is chance to get some retinunes for your admiral when buidling ships, which give command stars, so it's not total loos. Build it in city that has high growth (so it will get to higher levels more quickly) and is specialized in naval units.

The Brutii worship Juno, Mercury and Mars.

Juno: 25% happiness, 25% health, level 1 trade increase, +2XP -The temple of healing. This will give a family member traits like "in the pink", or "hail and hardy". The retinues it grants are good for morale and healing your troops after battle, plus the doctor it will grant is good for having kids too.

Mercury: 25% happiness, 10% health, level 5 trade increase, +1XP -The temple of trade. This is one of those temples that is a razors edge, a family member put here will either be an astounding governor or a really really craptacular one. No middle of the road. The retinues members it hands out all increase either trade income or managment.

Mars: 25% happiness, 10% health, level 1 trade increase, +3XP, +1 moral, Arcani -The temple of battle, all the Roman factions have a temple that give very desirable civic or military bonuses but very bad traits this is the Brutii's. The traits it usually grants are anger and bloodlust, but with a much much higher probability than the temple of Neptune. It has some good retinue member the preist is good as is the werstler and gladiator it will give. but that doesn't quite make up for the fact that is turns your family members into a demented, abusive, phsychotic, maniac given enough time.

Build Juno in cities with low fertility, for those with bit higher fertility build Mercury for cities with good trade (for maximum gain), and Mars where you plan to build lots of troops.

Important thing to rememeber that Mars gives bloodlust and anger, while mercury gives some good bonuses as well as some terrible vices (usually gained aftre city becomes bigger).



All together, it's always good stragety to mix temples whatever faction you play That way you can combine all retunue memebers.


P.S.
Also Neptune does give any vices at all as far as I remember.

[Rodion Romanovich]

1. Economic Position - They're all equal. Brutii are good due to location near Greece and Macedon but Greece and Macedon can be hard to break. Scipii have an advantage in quick ability to conquer Carthage and Sicily but there their advantage ends. Numidia is easy to conquer, but poor. Not until they reach Egypt or Spain do they get much money again. But a good player would secure Greece with Scipii, and then they're probably the best from an economical perspective due to both being able to conquer Carthage and Greece areas. Julii however aren't that bad either as they can conquer both Gaul and Germania at the same time, and do it fast due to the barbarians not having wooden walls and being generally easy to beat in the game. A skilled Julii player would also secure Carthage (and perhaps also parts of Sicily) before the Scipii does, and should therefore be able to get a flourishing economy easily.

2. Strategic Military Position - The Julii can conquer MUCH from their position, although every settlement they conquer might be poorer. If they take Carthage too they should have a really good position. Also for most conquests they don't need naval superiority to win their wars - therefore their position is among the better. Scipii have a problematic position at the start due to needing naval superiority in order to transport their troops between their starting settlements. An average player would conquer Carthage and then Numidia first. When going for Numidia the strategical position is bad due to Scipii having to spread out their forces much when conquering such a large landmass as North Africa, and they might end up sharing borders with Egypt if they go to far - or if the Egyptians go too far. A better Scipii player would conquer much of Greece and Macedon too early, and then secure what's probably one of the best positions of the romans. The Brutii are in the worst starting position but can build much out of it. It's hard for them to conquer Carthage and north africa early, due to long transport distances. Their only really viable alternative that doesn't stretch their forces too thin would be the Greeks and Macs, but once they're down the Brutii have so many options that their formerly problematic position is in many ways compensated. However the northern Balkans area is a problematic area with few borders unless you stay at the Danube line or go all the way north into Germania and conquer Scythia up to the Volga, so there you have some problems again. The other alternative is to establish a foothold in Asia minor and go east - an alternativ which can also be problematic until you've taken at least 2 settlements in Asia minor. As I see it, all are quite even here as the provinces Brutii can take easily are so good that they've got an advantage over the other romans even if they're holding fewer provinces after the first game years.

3. Temple Bonuses - Scipii have an obvious advantage in the Decere and Corvus Quinquireme. However I've personally not needed any better ships than the Quinquireme as most AI enemies seem to neglect their navies. Also most temples built have to be happiness only temples on harder difficulties, and there all 3 roman factions are equal.

4. Gladiator Type - usually a legionary is better than a gladiator to fill a spot in any roman army, so gladiator type really doesn't matter. The julii and scipii gladiators are probably the best, but hard to access. The brutii gladiators are lighter and fill a more unique function in a roman army due to it's light equipment and strong charge unlike most roman line troops who have low charge and strong defence. I'd say perhaps Brutii are best here but I rarely ever use the gladiators, they're really not important enough to determine which roman faction is strongest.

In conclusion I'd say all 3 roman factions are about equal in strength and difficulty.

[SMZ]

Ahh... thanks for the explanation about that curious state Dutch_guy.

Well there is no arguing about who has the best navy, Scipii without a doubt.
However you can blockade a port with just 1 bireme and get exactley the same effect as when you blockade the port with 20 units of deceres.
And to me, a navy is important but I'll go with the legions every day

Your blockades will not last very long if the enemy has the stronger navy and can continually break said blockades. If you've destroyed all their ships first however, then you may impose a complete blockade with no hope of their ever breaking free. And true, you need the legions to conquer, marching around thru deserts and mountains however can slow your progress to a crawl. Much quicker to sail up and down the coastlines. :)

Good point Conqueror! I had forgotten that.

All the discussion about starting position is nonsence in my opinion.

Hardly so! As you admit yourself, it forces you to seize certain areas rapidly. Yes the Scipii or Brutii can cut one another off, and the Julii can cut them both off. But you will have to work quickly and skillfully to do so. It shapes your gameplay for the first twenty turns or so and builds the dynamics for everything that will follow. I consider that extremely important.

P.S.
Also Neptune does give any vices at all as far as I remember.

I was curious about that as well. However, since I hadn't kept track of ancillaries and traits provided and lars573 seemed knowledgeable on the subject I went with his notes. I'll playtest that tonight I guess.

[lars573]

My conclusions about the Neptune temple are based on experience. I build the Neptune temple in Capua remember the starting Scipii capitol. Several family member mature there, after all the ones who would mature there did I took the older ones and left a fresh 16 yearold Scipii a governor. During his tenture he gained bloody and anger as traits, as the city progressed from level 2 to 4. Now disregarding the random hand of fate in his trait gathering the only conclusion is that Neptune can hand out bloody and anger as traits. Also this isn't the only time it has happened to a Scipii family member I've left in Capua with a Neptune temple long term.

[player1]

My conclusions about the Neptune temple are based on experience. I build the Neptune temple in Capua remember the starting Scipii capitol. Several family member mature there, after all the ones who would mature there did I took the older ones and left a fresh 16 yearold Scipii a governor. During his tenture he gained bloody and anger as traits, as the city progressed from level 2 to 4. Now disregarding the random hand of fate in his trait gathering the only conclusion is that Neptune can hand out bloody and anger as traits. Also this isn't the only time it has happened to a Scipii family member I've left in Capua with a Neptune temple long term.

And my conclusions are based on txt data files for moding that spell out exacly what trait can temple affect and what ancillaries can be gained.

[Ironside]

I have to say that last time I checked, did the Jupiter temple give a higher bonus to law than 10%. I think it's 25%.

[player1]

Only in BUG-FIXER...

Seriously, Jupiter temple drops its law bonus from 20% to 10% at last level. And I don't think it was deliberate, if you ask me...

[Ironside]

Only in BUG-FIXER...

Seriously, Jupiter temple drops its law bonus from 20% to 10% at last level. And I don't think it was deliberate, if you ask me...

Aaahh, took the inofficial patch from here before I played my first game.

[caesar44]

Did not read the post's , just unswearing - the romans (in RTR)