nuggetthegreat question from MTW Guide Forum

[ichi]

Nuggetthegreat posted this in the MTW guides forum, I thought it might get a better response in here

Any ideas?

Has anybody else ever had a civil war turn the rebels into another faction?

Hello,

I am a new member here but i have a huge question.

While playing the spain on the campaigne i was doing great.

I was making about 7000- 8000 florins a year profit.

I decided it would be good to take out all of the people in my pininsula and eventually wiped the almohades at their own game. while conquering north africa i get this message 'You have 20 years left in this campaign.'
so i decided to go north with my other 5 huge armies.

At about 7 years left in the campaign i left my computer, got some supper, and came back. When i got back i saw a message on my screen that said this province has had a civil war witch side do you choose. of course i chose my side but when i looked all of my provinces and armies had turned to the almohades. the only explanation i could think of was that they had bribed all of my provinces against me. but it is impossible to bribe royalty. im sooooo confused and angry

ichi

[Zarax]

Err... The only thing i can think of is that he somehow married a princess to the almohads and so when the king died they had a share of the player lands...

[Quietus]

The only likely scenario here is that the rebels from the civil war joined the Almohads. He has to give some more details and preferably the order in which it happened.

[Patron]

The rebels were either bribed, or because they were in some dead factions ex-territory, the faction re-emerged and swallowed up all of the rebels.

[tigger_on_vrb]

Probably atleast one province was going to rebel that turn anyway and the low loyalty in that province triggered a faction reappearance the same turn as the civil war

[Weebeast]

I guess the major religion was Islam in that particular province so the "rebels" joined/became Almohads. If the rebels were catholic or whatever, Almohads probably have to fight them. It's a case pretty much like the steppe pagan rebels joining Golden Horde.

Factions don't have emmisaries when re-emerging so the rebels couldn't have been bribed lol. Plus, all agents, ships, princess, etc are gone once a faction is eliminated.

but it is impossible to bribe royalty. im sooooo confused and angry

Rebelling princes can be bribed (once they're rebels of course).

[Martok]

I guess the major religion was Islam in that particular province so the "rebels" joined/became Almohads. If the rebels were catholic or whatever, Almohads probably have to fight them. It's a case pretty much like the steppe pagan rebels joining Golden Horde.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, Weebeast. It's the only reasonable explanation that makes any sense.

And for what it's worth, I *have* seen rebels join a reborn faction before--although I don't think I've seen it happen on quite the scale that Nugget is describing. I mean, all of his provinces joined the Almos?? I have to admit that's pretty crazy, not to mention beyond anything I've encountered. I've had as many as 3-5 provinces join a resurrected faction, but not all of them!

[Ironside]

It depends if it's all or "all" provinces.

If every single one of the provinces joins the Almohads, then it's the inheiritage by marriage bug. His royal line died out, he got a civil war but before that, his kingdom joined the Almohads. Thus you don't die out, but you don't have any land or troops left. But it sounds odd as the Almohads had been killed.

If it's most of his provinces and considering that his empire seems to consist of Spain, Northern Africa and Southern France, I'm guessing faction re-emergence. If the Almo re-emerge in thier former provinces and some rebels next to the Almohads joins up, most of his empire would end up as Almohads.

[Ciaran]

My best bet is a massive faction re-emergence. I had something similar happen a while back (see the empire pictures thread), where re-emerging factions got huge numbers of provinces. I suppose it´s unusual that all provinces should join the re-emerging faction, but I think it´s not completely impossible. And there are not that many provinces in Spain, so it might look much but isn´t, really.

[Grey_Fox]

When there is a rebellion in conquered lands (it does not need to even be recent) there is always a chance that they will return to the former owners.

Just one of the cases where it sux 2 b u.

[Oshidashi]

The fact that Nuggetthegreat started conquering on a large scale so late in the game must have been an important factor.

The lands he conquered must have gained loyalty as they were in their owner's posession for such a long time.

So the answer to why this has happened actually lies in the excentric strategy of Nuggetthegreat (e.g. not conquering provinces which are so ready to be Spanishised)

Sadly, I've also seen my games end with major uprisings of all kind throughout my territory. I guess hunger for revenge has made me start playing MTW GE again after having quite some (glorious) time spend in the classical world of Rome and Greece.

This time I'm going expert so I thought reading @ the Org would help
This is still a great site thx to all of your intriguing comments.

[naut]

This was dug up from the dead.

[Ciaran]

Indeed, but on that note, yesterday I had some massive reappearances in a Sicily/High/Hard/GA campaign. First the French reappeared after the Danes collapsed after the murder of their last king. Their reappearing army with the king was in Ireland, but almost all rebel provinces located in France (virtually all provinces in the territory of France) joined the French flag.
Much the same happened a couple of turns later when the Egyptians came back, their re-emergence army was placed in Moscow (before they had collapsed - again by the hands of my assasins - they had conquered each and every province between Cyrenaica and Novgorod, literally the whole eastern map) and all the rebel provinces joined their cause.
I´ve not seen that on Medium difficulty, but on Hard it seems that rebel provinces tend to join with a re-emerging faction.
By the way, the HRE came back three times by now, though only the "conventional" way - one massive attack on one or two provinces, no rebels joining them.

[naut]

Usually there arn't enough rebel provences on my map to join the re-emerging faction