Why so much speculations about Germany in WWII?

[Ulrih fon Jungingen]

Why there is so dominating thinking that Germany had superior military machine than other countries in WWII? Ok, superior against France`s, Poland`s etc. but not superior than Soviets. Soviets had the best military technic all war and even after that and also this country was more prepared for war than even Germany, but still there is opinion in almost every history book, that Germany had best weapons for "Blizkrieg" etc.

Tactics and comanders were good, but that`s all.

Your opinions?

[Papewaio]

Considering the amount of support that Russia got from the rest of the allies, that it was fighting only on one front since the Japanese were busy attacking the Americans and British in the Pacific.

Britain was fighting in South East Asia, North Africa and at home.

Nor was Russia that prepared before or during the war given the amount of purging going on.

Compare all of the main players with the USA and its production capacity, and despite being at War the USA's standard of living rose.

Economically the power house by volume was the USA.

Number of fronts fighting on was the British.

Russia tactics of meat grinder is not really the sign of great genius. More rifles, machine guns and training while maintaining a solid NCO core and keeping the more brilliant officers would have served Russia far better.

[Ulrih fon Jungingen]

Considering the amount of support that Russia got from the rest of the allies, that it was fighting only on one front since the Japanese were busy attacking the Americans and British in the Pacific.

Britain was fighting in South East Asia, North Africa and at home.

Nor was Russia that prepared before or during the war given the amount of purging going on.

Compare all of the main players with the USA and its production capacity, and despite being at War the USA's standard of living rose.

Economically the power house by volume was the USA.

Number of fronts fighting on was the British.

Russia tactics of meat grinder is not really the sign of great genius. More rifles, machine guns and training while maintaining a solid NCO core and keeping the more brilliant officers would have served Russia far better.

Hmm, OK Russia had only one front, but this was the main front of all war. Here was broken neck of Hitler`s army, not on secondary theatres as Africa etc.

Soviets also had better tanks than all other in war involved countries and their amount were larger than all countries had together. More or less same with all equipment starting from infantry weapons, ending with artilery etc. OK, Germany, USA or Britain had some specific units better than Soviets, but whole system was far superior.

Russian tactics? Hmm, it`s historical for them, especially in such type of country. One of Stalin`s aforisms says everything - "Death of one man - tragedy, death of hundreds - statistic".
Heavy casualties in the beginning of war were only because of Soviets plans to attack Germany first. Actually this was one of the main points that Germany wrote in in oficial declaration of war which was passed by Shulenburg to Molotov in Moscow.

[Papewaio]

Hmm, OK Russia had only one front, but this was the main front of all war. Here was broken neck of Hitler`s army, not on secondary theatres as Africa etc.

Sorry this is one of my pet peeves and shows typical arrogant eurocentric thinking that the only place in the world is europe.

The British Empire at the time covered a 1/4 of the globe. Some of which was in East Asia and at war with Japan, a major power given what they where doing in China, Singapore and Hawaii. Japan was a very credible threat and was on the verge of taking over the whole of the Western Pacific.

If the Japanese had attacked the Russians instead of the Americans and British, Russia would have had its back against the wall. No American aid, and a two way front. Very hard to relocate factories to Siberia if it was flying the Japanese flag.

Germany was fighting a multi-front war, it was up against the British Empire and the USA eventually (minus that fighting Japan). That was not a good position to be in given the British Navy, Radar and the British 'lucky' ability to read the codes faster then the enemy commanders got them (first by mathematicians later by actually having the machine, some of the first computers).

Russia on the other hand was against one foe on one front, with the backup of two major players keeping the Japanese from them.

[The Electric Celt]

I'm sure there will be more enlightened souls than I on this topic,however I'll chuck my tu'pence worth in.
The Germans pioneered the concept of mechanised Blitzkrieg and this did involve new and devastating tech. advances.The dive bombers that debuted in the 1935 Spanish civil war and various fast,light panzers that only later were superceded by the Tiger and super Tiger,these were one of the reich's mistakes on the Eastern front,Hitler opting for quality whilst the Soviets were able to churn out T 34's (Cheaper, inferior but in vast quantities).Russia only had numbers on it's side not tech.
Lest we forget superior German U boats,the V.1,V.2 and the German led developement of the A bomb.
I'll let someone more learned take over,but as an afterthought would be interested in why you feel the German army was not so advanced,
Cheers

[edyzmedieval]

Ahh.... One of my favourite topics...Germany in the WWII...

Germany was a powerhouse in the Second World War... It not only had brilliant commanders( see Edwin Rommel, Hermann Goering...) and numbers but it also had great technology and scientists.... Technology like King Tiger tanks, V1 and V2 missiles, heavy water( Telemark Research Base, Rjukan, Norway), great ships( Bismarck, Tirpitz) and last but not least, the Luftwaffe, helped them very much.... Too bad that they didn't have enough numbers of them at the end of the war....

And the medium level of technology was high also.... Look at the main battle tank, Panzer Kapmfwagen 4.... Very good medium tank, which was the equal of the Sherman....

If the USA hadn't come into the war, Germany easily could have become a superpower.... They helped the URSS which was responsible for destroying Hitler's army and country..... USA helped rebuild the Russian economy, which translated in thousands of T34 tanks..... USA also helped the British, who were nearly over in 1940 and 1941.......

[The Electric Celt]

I don't know how to quote a segment ,but Mr Edyzmedieval did I hear you correctly:

"Too bad they didn't have the numbers by the end of the war"

Too bad for whom ???!!!

[Ulrih fon Jungingen]

Eddyz,

Goering - briliant commander in WWII?:)))))))) Yeah, realy great. Germans can say him thanks for Stalingrad catastrophe, for bad use of Luftwaffe field divisions, bombing German cities etc.

King Tiger tanks and V1, V2 had no large affect on war. Actually when this was developed war was ending and this armour has nothing together with german "blitzkrieg" strategy (actually this strategy borned in Lipezk maneuvres where Soviets allowed training of Germany officiers, equipment etc. which was forbidden by Versaile treaty).

For "blitzkrieg" in East Germany had only 4000 light tanks, including Chezh 38 against Soviets 14 000 including ~1000 T-34 (medium) and KV-1 (heavy). Same was with planes, guns, manpower etc.
Sherman tank:))) Was it really tank for normal battle? Small gun, high corpuss, low speed, bad armour protection etc.

Therefore I`m still asking why lots of people think that Germany was military Superpower?

[cegorach]

Sometimes I am really suprised how the German equipment is overrated.

It is usually forgotten that German planes, tanks, guns etc. were often outdated more than those of the USA, Britain or Russia or even some other countries ( France or Poland).
It is funny, but some units were using real junk... And just see how inferior equipment was used in 1941 in Russia.
Russian tanks or planes might be not the best in the world, but German were too - just see the number of PzII used during Barbarossa and compare them to Soviet BT or even T26. It is superior tactics, experience, commanders and luck ( suprise attack) which proved so important in the early part of the russian campaign.
It is often forgotten that if Germany had roughly 3500 tanks and 3500 planes the SU had 22 000 tanks and 19 000 planes of comparable quality or sometimes much more modern - the 1500 T34 and KV1 & 2 might be only a fraction of Soviet equipment, but it was almost 50 % of German numbers

[edyzmedieval]

I don't know how to quote a segment ,but Mr Edyzmedieval did I hear you correctly:

"Too bad they didn't have the numbers by the end of the war"

Too bad for whom ???!!!

For the Germans, for whom.....

If they had enough King Tiger Tanks and also V2 missiles, then I think the fate would have been different.... In my opinion, King Tiger was the best tank in the whole war.... (I'm reffering to its gun, armour.... it would have beaten the T34 easily)

[Franconicus]

Germany was a powerhouse in the Second World War... It not only had brilliant commanders( see Edwin Rommel, Hermann Goering...) .......

but it also had a lot of bad commanders (Paulus...). Hermann Goering was one of the bad ones. He did a good job builting up the Luftwaffe, but he lost Dunquerke and Stalingrad.

heavy water( Telemark Research Base, Rjukan, Norway), great ships( Bismarck, Tirpitz) and last but not least, the Luftwaffe, helped them very much.... Too bad that they didn't have enough numbers of them at the end of the war...........

heavy water is totally overestimated.

[CBR]

The German army had some serious shortcomings in the material as they still used horses in their infantry divisions throughout the war. Their tanks were also very light in the beginning of the war.

But their blitzkrieg tactics and superior training made up for these shortcomings in the early years. The Soviet army ended up being a good army that nearly was of the same standards but of course with a much larger army compared to what the Germans ever had. Their attack in Manchuria in 1945 was very much a typical blitzkrieg attack.


CBR

[edyzmedieval]

Sorry guys.... I'm a bit dizzzy today....

Goering was indeed a bad commander.... Paulus had the complete responsibility for losing Stalingrad......
Brilliant commanders of the Third Reich: Heinz Guderian(not very famous, but he had invented the tank warfare in Germany), Albert Kesselring( which I admire) and Model(forgot his complete name).... Also, Gerd von Runstedt(not brilliant, but good)

At the end of the war, they really had some technology going, although they haven't had the resources and time to make them in large numbers...... The advantage of the Germans was clearly the Blitzkrieg.... Indeed, as you say, the had inferior technology when they attacked Poland and Russia( they had many Czech light tanks of inferior quality) but as the war progressed, they made many improvements to the army.... They made new tanks to equip the army, and they were good ( Panzer Kmpfw 4 and Panzer III and IV)but I think it was a bit too late... The Soviets got their T34 going.... It was the rescue of the Soviet Union....

[CBR]

King Tigers came way too late in the war to have made any difference. Tiger tanks were in general very expensive as they were very complicated to build. But the King Tiger was no doubt the most heavy of all tanks and its long 88 mm gun was deadly.

V2 missiles could only make attacks on large cities and the development of the industry to build them was very costly (they could have built around 10000 more fighters during 1944 instead, for the same resources used) and it was simply not worth the effort.

Germany had built up a good military industry before the war but amateur management of it cost them the war as it was only in 1943 they started to get it up and running and by then it was too late to catch up.


CBR