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Thread: Unit Size and Ammunition

  1. #1

    Question Unit Size and Ammunition

    Hi there.

    Here are two things I want to know.

    1.)
    I just upped the number of soldiers in several units in the file: "export_descr_unit", in order to get a better feeling as a "Great General".
    Example: The "Mercenary Hoplites" just have 140 Soldiers in unitscale "huge".
    Rome shall simulate epic battles, and 242 soldiers per unit is alright ( unit size setting is huge ), but not really "epic".

    In some threads I read that the max Soldier-Number in a unit is about 265.
    Does that mean, that increasing the number to lets say 500-1000 soldiers per unit lets Rome crash to desktop, or do we have a "Slideshow" there? (Or perhaps a nuclear meltdown ?)

    Has anyone tested higher numbers? And then, what happened?

    2.)
    I realized that my archers, normally 120 soldiers per unit, after the change 160, run out of ammo a little faster.

    I already searched in the forums a bit, but didnīt find the info on where to change the amount of ammo for missile units.

    Can someone tell me the name of the file where to change the ammo?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    1 hardcoded

    2 try the caligila or something like that.

    it is in your export_descr_unit

  3. #3

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    The number of soldiers in the text file is multiplied depending on the chosen 'unit size'. The maximum value can't be exceeded, or a CTD is the result. 240+ commanders is the limit. You can vary the number of men in the unit but not exceed that set value. At all.

    From memory, the number of arrows is defined in the main units text file. Can't remember the name, but it is the one with all the combat stats in it! descr_unit or somesuch.

    Read teh explanatory text at the top of the text file and it tells you which entry to look at
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  4. #4
    Mojito maker Member Jimmytwohand's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    I was just wondering...... Seeing as the 240 limit is hard coded, why does the battle editor allow you to specify up to 300 troops per unit (even though this appears in the batte as 240)? Was it simply that the editor was designed before all the parameters were set in stone?

  5. #5

    Unhappy Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    Thanks for the info brave soldiers.

    As I see it, Martinaz didnīt seem to read my post entirely. I mentioned the file for changing the number of soldiers,...well...because I already changed it.
    I wouldnīt mention it then, righty? Ok.

    So 242 men per unit are the absolute maximum ? ( Effectively on the BF )
    Mmmm. I donīt believe that "The Creative Assembly" will change that in the upcoming Add-On.

    By the way, what is the main requirement for many many many Soldiers on the Battlefield? Is it Ram-Memory or CPU-Power?

    --As for the Ammunition, my question still stands unanswered.--


    -------

    "Weīre out of Range." - "I can see that!!!"

  6. #6
    Shae'en M'taal Member Andreas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    No, it is said you changed the ammo in export_descr_unit.txt, the fifth value at the stat_pri, if you are to lazy to read the descreption at the top, as you vere recommended to do.:P
    Supporter and retired teammember of the Wheel of Time mod.

  7. #7
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    By the way, what is the main requirement for many many many Soldiers on the Battlefield? Is it Ram-Memory or CPU-Power?

    Video card.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    More questions , no answers .

    I recently played RTR 5.41 and this thing never happened when I played RTW vanilla. I always played on huge unit size even though it always slowed during large battles.

    Anyway, on my first campaign as a Roman , this funny things happened. I'm allied with Carthage (which at that time controlled whole of Sicily and most of Iberian peninsular). I have manage to stay allied with them by refusing senate order to invade them since the start of the game. It's still quite early in the campaign (pre-marian) and I'm secretly building and training and invasion army , 2 stacks of them full of ypung generals , furnatidores and principees (with few high level hastatis). No siege engines yet as I haven't been able to do that.

    At that time I have consolidate all of Italy , and most of southern gaulish provinces up to the pyrenes (border between modern day france and spain). While to the east I have taken all the coastal town from the Dacians , can't remember the names though until now I'm bordering Macedonia which is the strongest faction at those area (Greeks have been annihiliated earlier my my Roman armies).

    Before I manage to invade Sicily (while loading the troops for crossing the straits) maybe the carthaginian can smell my suppose bad intention towards them and somehow a large army siege my town of Nablo Martius (?) which I recently accuired from the Gaul and broke the long standing alliance. My large invading force there earlier are nearby to finish off the nearest Gaul town and I quickly call back the troops for the defence of that small and unsignificant town ('cause I hate to lose even one town) but they couldn't reach there in one turn.

    One the next turn I send my invasion force to Sicily (only one stack because Macedonia suddenly decided to join in the fun and attack my eastern province (should be where albania and serbia nowadays lays) and I have to send a full stack of reinforcement there. Anyway I landed a full stack force full of experience (some veterens from the Gaul campaign and retrained) and quickly lay siege to thier nearest town which I don't remember the name. Carthage quickly lift off the siege of nablo Martius seeing a large relief force is heading their way and sue for ceasefire which I rejected outright.

    What they did later was beyond my belief. The make themselves allied with the Senate (I recieve the news from the pop up box) and still the state of war still exist between me and Carthage as usually is Senate allies with another faction they will become neutral to me (which is still ally with Senate). I don't mind about that actually because with the forces in Sicily I can conquered in less that 10 turns.

    What really surprise me is that by the next turn my huge size forces ther are suddenly reduce to small size unit. (30 pax for Principees/Hastatis). It didn't happend to my other forces except the one besieging the Carthage town in Sicily. They sallied out but I still manage to beat them and conquered the town but my forces are severly depleted (no time to build required building to retrain them) and no time to send back the army to Italy to retrain.

    NOW how could this happen ? Is this a bug issue ? Is this a diplomacy issue (maybe because they are allied with Senate) or is this some script issue which I do not understand (FYI i've installed all the mods I can get including Roma & Darthmods and includes the latin voice over etc.)

    Can anyone give their opinion ?

    Regards,,,
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  9. #9

    Unhappy Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    I seem to have missed something, as my eyes were pointed towards Troy.

    Naa, I thought I read it.

    Here: "From memory, the number of arrows is defined in the main units text file. Can't remember the name, but it is the one with all the combat stats in it! descr_unit or somesuch."
    ---That is the right description to get a grip on things.

    I think that I already wrote in in this thread, alas the answer would be:
    "export_descr_unit". If this file is meant.---Nevermind.
    So it is to be the fifth stat in the respective weapon line of a unit.

    As for Lestat.

    What do you mean to tell us anyway? The issue was, if it is possible to get more soldiers in a unit than the 242 max.
    It wasnīt the army size that mattered directly.

    Can you recruit only one unit per turn in a settlement???
    That would bother me too, but only would, since I installed the "SPQR-Mod",
    which allows you to recruit up to nine units per turn and per settlement, except some special units.


    Another thing is very strange though, wlesmana. When I battle with two of my armies against two others, the game is about to become a small slideshow. EVEN IF the reinforcing armies of me and the enemy didnīt arrive yet.
    Thatīs supposed to be the video card??? Mmmmmm.

    Has anyone tried to change the 242 men max?
    Or does "Hard-Coded" mean that there is absolutely no way to make units with effectively 800 men per unit, simulated on the Battlefield?

    By the way, how many men are in a "Legion"? (Must me slightly more than approx. 3000 ) Ever heard of The Varus Carnage in Germania???

    ( Perhaps I ask too much. )

  10. #10

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE MORE THAN 242 MEN IN A UNIT.

    It's been tried many times, asked about, checked with, and people even asked CA if they planned to change it in patches etc. It is HARD CODED in the game and not changeable. Increase the number and you game WILL ALWAYS CRASH. Thats about as clear as I can make it.

    If you are still not clear on this...try it and see what happens.

    You are also limited in the number of units you can have in an army, and that is also hard-coded and not moddable.

    When it comes to game performance, there are more things at work than just a graphics card. CPU power and available RAM will also play their part. You don't give us any clues as to your system spec, so I couldn't say for sure. I don't have problems displaying big armies with an Athlon 64 and 1Gb of PC3200 DDR. I don't have a powerful vid card, so I moderate the detail a little and don't push it with the resolution either. 1024x768 does for me.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  11. #11

    Unhappy Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    Your comment is as clear as a fine diamond.

    And you told : "and people even asked CA if they planned to change it in patches etc." So what did CA answer to that?

    I donīt have a tight grip on the term "Hardcoded". It seems to mean that noone in the community is able to change anything "hardcoded".
    But the CA is surely capable of upping the soldiermax a bit.

    I read a little preview of "The Barbarian Invasion", and the only thing mentioned concerning units is, that there will be more units. Not a word about bigger units. That is a bit dissatisfying.

    My system specs are:

    1.) Cpu Athlon 64 3000+

    2.) 512 Mb ddr400 Ram

    3.) Radeon 9600XT

    Is it my RAM that causes the slideshow on the battlemap, even if the reinforcing armies are still not participating?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    :D Your understanding of 'hardcoded' is spot on. Basically, some aspects of the game are controlled by the games basic code ( the chunk in the RomeTW.exe file) and others are read from text files etc. The stuff in the exe file can't be changed without illegal hacking and reverse engineering of the exe file.

    CA cold change it and relee a new exe file, but pobably won't. Some changes might happen in the soon to be released 'Barbarian Invasion' add-on. Don;t think they are changing the things you want done though....

    Your 9600XT isn't a bad card, and you are using the same CPU as me. I have 1Gb of DDR400 though. Right now, RAM is cheap....so you might want to take the chance on throwing another 512Mb in.

    A good way to check your graphics cards effect on the game is to turn down the detail levels, switch from 32 bit colour to 16 bit, and see what effect that had. I am using a humble GF4 Ti4200 ( until tomorrow when my 6800GT arrives ) and find I quite often need to turn down the resolution a bit.

    To properly test it, set up a custom battle with as many troops as you can. Then let it go. Check to see if the game gets slow and stuttery. Turn down some detail options and try again. Repeat until you run out of things to turn down! If you hit a sweet spot, then great.

    If not....go buy another 512Mb of ram and try again ;)
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  13. #13

    Exclamation Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    Alright Bwian.

    So RAM is rather important for the performance in R:TW. I already had the thought to by me another 512MB-Bar, since Rome will not be the only game I will play soon. ( X3-Reunion, and perhaps F.E.A.R., if you know these. )

    So, our task would be to hover up the CA Guys to double the max. Hehehe...
    no triple it....hehehe...noooo make it BIGGER ....hahahaaa, a million Soldiers a unit......hahAAAAAAAAAAA!




    (Besides, how did you come to call yourself Bwian. Is this only a name or does it mean something too?)

  14. #14
    CA CA JeromeGrasdyke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    It's probably because he's a member of the People's Front of Judea...

    And as for changing the hardcoded limits on unit sizes - very unlikely I'm afraid. It's not a priority in the immediate future.
    "All our words are but crumbs that fall down from the feast of the mind."
    -- from 'The Prophet' by Kahlil Gibran

  15. #15
    Modder Member Encaitar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    I thought he was in the Judean People's Front?
    Encaitar Arandur

    Middle-earth: Total War Dev

  16. #16

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    I guess that makes my mod team the Judean Popular Front...
    Epistolary Richard's modding Rules of Cool
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    Peoples front of Judea.. SPLITTERS!

    I thought we were the Popular Front of Judea ... no...ok...whatever happened to the Popular Front....'He's over there.....'

    I could quote the rest of the movie, but some of you would get bored.

    For those who don't have a clue what we are on about....get yourself a copy of Monty Pythons 'Life of Brian' open a fresh bag of Otters Noses and treat yourself
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  18. #18

    Unhappy Re: Unit Size and Ammunition

    Ohh no, please no....
    Ok, it is a question of taste, whoever likes or doesnt like "Life of Brian". For me the Humor was a little too british. Everyone in here seems to like this movie. ( Take no offence )

    Thanks Jerome for informing us so directly about the Hardcoded-thingy.
    So you work for the CA?
    Mmm , seems that we have to contend with this for now, and for some time.
    What about "far future projects"?

    Does anyone know what CA will do, or is already doing that will come after the "Barbarian Invasion"?

    Fact is that TotalWar is getting better and better. What could be the next setting then? ! I donīt want to play WorldWar2:TotalWar. !

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