our serial looser

[Divinus Arma]

So it turns out my little comment was not so racist after all. Perhaps it was an informed and alert comment, eh?

The fact is, (and someone from France may correct me if I am wrong), the influx of poorly educated Muslims into France represents a threat to European security. Why? Many radical Imams in France preach hate and death. Poor and impoverished muslims are the target of these preaching and represent the base from where terrorists are drawn. Sure, there are educated terrorists too. But the terror troopers are the Muslim poor who have been taught to hate since childhood.

It wasn't the IRA who attacked Britain. Muslims.

We must recognize the truth: Not all Muslims are jihadist terrorists, but all jihadist terrorists are Muslim.

Racist? HELL NO. I would not dare judge a man by the color of his skin. I have had many friends that were black, mexican, white, whatever. It means nothing to me.

And let me tell you, there are too many people who just pull that card every time it gets them something they want. Outrageous.

I just call a spade a spade. The danger in not doing so is death.

[william the bastard]

[QUOTE=Divinus Arma]
The fact is, (and someone from France may correct me if I am wrong), the influx of poorly educated Muslims into France represents a threat to European security. Why? Many radical Imams in France preach hate and death. Poor and impoverished muslims are the target of these preaching and represent the base from where terrorists are drawn. Sure, there are educated terrorists too. But the terror troopers are the Muslim poor who have been taught to hate since childhood.

Regarding poorly educated and hopeless future, I agree your diagnosis. But open your eyes, that not concerned only France, you have huges muslims communities in Germany (mainly from Turkey) same in Belgium, and no need to talk about "Londonistan". This is a global prob. If you thought enemy was only at the gates, he still might have a foothold.

[Divinus Arma]

Regarding poorly educated and hopeless future, I agree your diagnosis. But open your eyes, that not concerned only France, you have huges muslims communities in Germany (mainly from Turkey) same in Belgium, and no need to talk about "Londonistan". This is a global prob. If you thought enemy was only at the gates, he still might have a foothold.

Wow. I had no idea. And we thought illegal mexican immigrants were bad. At least they don't try to blow us up.

[Meneldil]

Well, the situation with muslims in France is not that bad, if we look at what happens in UK, Germany or Spain.
But we hear about 8 years old people who deny that there was a pre-muslim civilisation in Egypt or other crap like that quite often now.
But then again, not all muslims want to 'blow us up'. A lot are trying to find jobs, and many of them respect our 'republican values'. But there's a particular problem with the youngest and poorest muslims, yes.

Taffy_is_a_Taff, I dunno who made this pic, but "Le terror alert" doesn't mean anything. The guy should try with "La terror alert".
Btw, our terror alert seems quite efficient, since we arrested our own algerian terrorists in the 90's, and avoided many attacks in the last 2 years.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Meneldil, that was a joke about Chirac being sucky.

[Red Harvest]

I agree that the racist label is applied too frequently. I've been the victim of this witch hunt myself, it is absolutely absurd! The definition of racism has been made so broad by misguided academics that it has become overworn and largely useless. You can't have diversity without recognizing differences...yet in so doing, your view can be labeled as racist. It is a catch 22.

DA is right to some extent from what I see. The problem is not with French willingness to absorb the immigrant Muslim population. It is the intolerant zeal that some Muslim's are bringing with them. Notice I say "some." It is important not to paint with too broad a brush. In the reports I've heard/read, Jews were leaving France at an alarming rate because of a rise in anti-semitism--something that appears rampant looking at comments of Europeans from across the pond. And no, I'm not Jewish. I think as little of radical Imam based education as I do of the extreme Christian schools. Neither are conducive to a tolerant society. A religious based school need not be extremist, militant, or intolerant. When one is found to be so, it should be closed.

Unfortunately, too much of the Arab world has embraced religious education, and too often it has been extremist. Often it was in response to or applied as a salve for authoritarian regimes. The focus has been on finding external enemies, rather than dealing with the "devils" at home. There is some shift apparent, but it is going to take some time for this to work out, and it will undoubtedly be bumpy as nations adapt.

Where I disagree with DA the most is on comments about being poor, etc. And DA is pretty far off with his assessment of immigrants from Mexico--some of the hardest workers I've met. (The funny thing about that is that the far right conservative business men are the most likely to employ the illegals--in my experience--all to save a few bucks.) Contrary to popular belief, being poor does not make one a criminal. Nor does being wealthy make one better--just look at all those wealthy business leaders on trial for their unrelenting greed in ripping off MILLIONS of investors (care to ask me which one I find more dangerous--hint, it's not the guy holding up the mini-market.) Right/wrong/good/evil don't have a net worth limitation, nor particular relgious affiliations, nor do they have color, or specific educational levels. Quite a few of the most dangerous terrorists have had some sort of engineering background and/or have had wealthy families and good educations. People such as these are far more dangerous than the poor fellow digging ditches and picking crops.

[Red Harvest]

Btw, our terror alert seems quite efficient, since we arrested our own algerian terrorists in the 90's, and avoided many attacks in the last 2 years.

From the outside this appears more like a case of France catering to certain Islamic/Arab interests against other developed nations. Perhaps this is incorrect, but that is the perception. The "shoe bomber" flew from France didn't he? It would be an extreme blunder for the terrorists to attack France since they have nothing to gain politically from such an attack. Divide and conquer works better for them. They managed to get Spain to essentially surrender through a terrorist attack, quite an accomplishment. From the terrorist point of view keeping France neutral or even seen as a "collaborator" by the Anglo population would be in their best interest.

[Kagemusha]

Last week on conference Chirac sayed clote:British are not trusty ass allies because they have such an loysy cuisine.Only Finnish food is more disgusting.
After that Finnish government asked the French ambassador about his statement.The answer was that he newer sayd that.Next day he corrected his saying by saying that the Scottish Haggish is even more disgusting.
Chirac brings up every bad stereothypic on French.

[Goofball]

We must recognize the truth: Not all Muslims are jihadist terrorists, but all jihadist terrorists are Muslim.

That statement is not nearly as black and white (no matter how boldly you type it) nor is it nearly as truthful as you believe it to be.

In fact, just about all moderate Muslims insist that the terrorists who claim to be committing murder in the name of Islam are not really Muslims at all, because their actions are contrary to the true teachings of Islam.

Think of it in these terms. If I made the following statement:

"We must all recognize the truth: Not all Christians bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors, but all of those who do bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors are Christians."

you could (quite rightly) make the same argument: that anybody committing murder in the name of Christianity is not really a Christian.

[Papewaio]

So it turns out my little comment was not so racist after all. Perhaps it was an informed and alert comment, eh?

The fact is, (and someone from France may correct me if I am wrong), the influx of poorly educated Muslims into France represents a threat to European security. Why? Many radical Imams in France preach hate and death. Poor and impoverished muslims are the target of these preaching and represent the base from where terrorists are drawn. Sure, there are educated terrorists too. But the terror troopers are the Muslim poor who have been taught to hate since childhood.

It wasn't the IRA who attacked Britain. Muslims.

We must recognize the truth: Not all Muslims are jihadist terrorists, but all jihadist terrorists are Muslim.

Racist? HELL NO. I would not dare judge a man by the color of his skin. I have had many friends that were black, mexican, white, whatever. It means nothing to me.

And let me tell you, there are too many people who just pull that card every time it gets them something they want. Outrageous.

I just call a spade a spade. The danger in not doing so is death.

If you want to call a spade a spade then do so. It is not Muslims as a group, it is a sub-group of ones preaching hatred. They use the same tactics as the Nazis did in recruiting brown shirts, or the way neo-Nazis recruit unemployed depressed young and impressionable guys.

So stop brushing with such a broad brush unless you want to say Catholics are a world problem due to the IRA...

I would say the biggest threat to the world is lack of education being replaced by fundamentalist education. The Taliban had an oppourtunity in Afghanistan because of the lack of infrastructure and they provided fundamenalist eductation. Same with Hamas in Palestine, it would have been a lot harder for them to establish a foothold if there was a flourishing secular education system in place.

Australia has had Muslims here before Federation. One of the major train routes is called The Ghan after the Afghanistan immigrants whose camels helped supply Outback communities. Nowadays there is so many wild camels in the Outback we export them to the Middle East.

[zelda12]

I always say that Chirac will commit political suicide soon enough, when your that currupt and that idiotic you are bound to slip up sooner or later. Also don't be so sure that Chirac gets his way with everything in Europe. His economy is a fine example.

[Meneldil]

From the outside this appears more like a case of France catering to certain Islamic/Arab interests against other developed nations. Perhaps this is incorrect, but that is the perception. The "shoe bomber" flew from France didn't he? It would be an extreme blunder for the terrorists to attack France since they have nothing to gain politically from such an attack. Divide and conquer works better for them. They managed to get Spain to essentially surrender through a terrorist attack, quite an accomplishment. From the terrorist point of view keeping France neutral or even seen as a "collaborator" by the Anglo population would be in their best interest.

The fact is that France was, and targetered by muslim terrorists, and since 1996, our service prevented all these attacks. You have the same kind of - somewhat stupid - feeling some french people have : "Well, we're not in Irak, so there's no problem". Of course there's a problem. While France had some luck, I don't think we will prevent all incoming attacks.
May I remind you that France sent many soldiers to Afghanistan (yeah, the place where there was muslim extremists, unlike Irak) ?
May I remind you that France was probably the first country that had to deal with muslim terrorism in the 50's ? Back then, we probably deserved it, but we had our load of attacks, bombings and all that crap in the 70's, in the 80's and in the 90's. Back then, nobody did care about it, and I highly doubt there was an international media frenzy after the 1996 subway attack just like there's one with the recent bombings in London.

And well, I don't think Spain surrendered because of the terrorist attack, since more than 80% of the population was against the war. No doubt the newly elected gouvernement decided to leave Irak for a good reason...
France, and Germany for that matter, decided, for some national and international reasons, not to invade Irak, and it looks like it was the best choice around, since many country are now leaving the coalition, and since even in the US, the war is (from what I read and heard, I may be wrong on this) not even supported by the majority of the population.

As for the pro-arabian french policy, it's not news, and most probably linked to the colonial events. I don't always agree with it, but what ? US fully support Israel, yet I don't think the US support the extrem right israeli terrorists and fanatics.

After that Finnish government asked the French ambassador about his statement.The answer was that he newer sayd that.Next day he corrected his saying by saying that the Scottish Haggish is even more disgusting.
Chirac brings up every bad stereothypic on French.

I don't want to argue about that (mainly because this is oot and because I don't know finnish food), but hell, british and scottish food sure don't taste good

Meneldil, that was a joke about Chirac being sucky.

Yeah, I know. And I agree that Chirac sucks, but still, it would look better with "La Terror Alert"

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

so they got the gender of "terror alert" wrong?
hahaha

[TonyJ]

back to Chirac, I am sorry to say I see him entirely in a consistent traditions of French politicians back to C de G. (Perhaps I should say those French politicians who come to out attention accross the channel, mainly Mitterand and Delors. No doubt there are many others who are much better)

Namely that he is arrogant, self interested, utterly without principle save that whatever he/France wants is right, would dine with Satan himself if he felt it was in his or France's interests, and is wholly incapable of considering that any other nation may be his equal let alone superior in any respect. Finally, the sort of person who, should you be unfortunate to offer any assistance in any regard, will repay your help with undying hatred (OK, that may be C de G I am thinking of).

He must have redeeming features but I am at a loss to know what they are.

Strategically change some names, put Britain instead of France and you almost have a perfect description of good ol' Tony Blair and the sham of a political party he leads.

I do believe that someone, somewhere once said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

[Divinus Arma]

Perhaps my statements appear too broad. I'll not venture off-topic after this, but I will make a quick comment on the issue of Muslim extremism.

You are absolutely correct about jihadists not being true muslims. When I served in Afghanistan, I had regular contact with a few locals. I asked one what his opinion of the relationship between the Taliban and Islam. He told me that the Taliban were only thugs, operating under the banner of Islam. This same man had once been thrown in jail for seven days because his beard was too short.

I have no problem with Muslims. In fact, I despise religious extremism or actions in the name of religion regardless of what religion is involved. Christians have committed just as many, if not more, atrocities in the name of religion.

And Red Harvest, I must disagree with your assesment of the illegal alien issue. Yes they work hard. But our communities cannot absorb them. There are plenty of arguments that they "pay taxes" and "do the jobs that Americans won't". My friend works with an Illegal at a barbershop. The illegal makes $4-5k per month and pays no taxes. The illegal also makes claims for welfare for her children who she spat out on American soil, citizens who are consequently entitled to assistance since she claims the family lives below the poverty line. And I do not consider construction, retail, maid services, gardening, etc to be jobs that Americans won't take. Construction related jobs were one of the last trade school education jobs Americans had available. My wife was a maid. I used to mow lawns as a teenager. And so on.

American citizens can and would do the jobs. Even agriculture. Yes we would pay more for strawberries and lettuce, but we would be saving money in education, health care, road maintance, and crime.

I will not write any more off topic. We should create a new thread if we want to discuss immigration. But you know that becasue you are one of the high and mighty senior members. I bow to you your majesty.

[Red Harvest]

DA,

One thing that I see here where there are many more recent immigrants than slightly farther north, is the difference in who is working the lower end jobs, and what they will do them for. In one blue collar town I lived in recently the typical anglo wouldn't do a one hour mowing job for less than $50. I literally laughed in their faces when I got quotes. The immigrants around here would do it for $20. When I was a kid I would have done it for less than $10 (and that is accounting for inflation--I mowed huge lawns for $5.)