Why should I hate Abraham Lincoln?

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 07-06-2005, 21:34

Yup. Somebody needs to make the case against him to me. I've never understood it, and have always viewed him as one of our nation's greatest Presidents. But I've heard grumblings from both sides of the political spectrum against him on this forum.

So: why should I hate Lincoln or am I just confused about the .org's position?

**scooter_the_shooter** · 07-06-2005, 21:46

Who doesnt like lincoln he was one of the best i think

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 07-06-2005, 21:47

I thought I've heard both JAG and Capo, as well as others, not be too keen on the guy. Maybe I'm just imagining things. Again.

**GoreBag** · 07-06-2005, 21:55

Well, people say that he only wanted a black vote, that he actually wanted to deport all the blacks...mostly stuff dealing with that kind of thing.

**scooter_the_shooter** · 07-06-2005, 21:58

Well i always dismissed this as a lie but i heard he wanted to send them all back to africa after they were free

**Xiahou** · 07-06-2005, 22:37

Originally Posted by NeonGod

Well, people say that he only wanted a black vote, that he actually wanted to deport all the blacks...mostly stuff dealing with that kind of thing.

I could be wrong, as Im no expert on this, but I had always taken it as more of a misunderstanding on Lincoln's part. Thinking that slaves, having been forcibly removed from their homeland, would want to return once freed. Obviously, this was not the case for most- but I don't know that he was wanted it to be mandatory.

The biggest gripes I heard about Lincoln was his violations of civil liberties and vast strengthening of the Federal government. This included suspending habeas corpus and throwing his critics into military prison to rot. LINK

**GoreBag** · 07-06-2005, 23:51

Ah, then, so far, he's a racist and a tyrant. But really, how many men are there throughout history who are associated with a certain kind of facial hair?

**PanzerJaeger** · 07-06-2005, 22:00

You shouldnt hate him at all, you should just understand exactly who he was.
Others probably have more information, but Ill share my viewpoint of him compared with modern politics.

Abe Lincoln reminds me a lot of George W Bush.

He was viewed as a country boy, although he was well (self)educated. He was very thinly elected, and that election was contested. He was hated by a large part of the country. He understood that America stood for freedom, not oppression. He didnt get along with Europe very well. Finally, he understood that during a time of war the country had to operate in a way that it didnt during peacetime.(Imagine if Bush suspended the writ of habeas corpus today!)

People forget how hated he was, even in the north, during his time in office and how divisive he was, just like the current president.

Oh yes, he was just as racist as anyone else of that time. He didnt believe the blacks could make it in America and support Liberia I think.

**King of Atlantis** · 07-06-2005, 22:12

I dont really hate lincoln, but he is not as great as many beleive.

He failed to stop america's only civil war. Sure he won the war, but in the end it was almost impossible for the south to win anyways. Sure he ended slavery, but it was only a way to cripple the south. He did it in the middle of the war, and it only applied to slaves in the states that rebelled. The true ending of slavery came from congress. So, with all that being said, I dont see what he did that was good.

**Steppe Merc** · 07-06-2005, 22:14

Well, people say that he only wanted a black vote, that he actually wanted to deport all the blacks...mostly stuff dealing with that kind of thing.

Bingo. Many praise him as this wonderful guy who freed the blacks, but he didn't care about equality. I believe that some of the ideas he thought of were sending them off West, or to Africa.
I don't hate him per se, as there were far worse presidents. But I don't like him.

**Don Corleone** · 07-06-2005, 22:30

He also instituted a lot of the restrictions on states rights and granted the federal government a lot of the powers they have that the Constitution never intended to grant them. I don't just mean slavery. But the idea that state militia could be co-opted by the US Army. Or that you could order Virginia and North Carolina to raise an army to go invade South Carolina & Georgia. These are his hallmarks, a powerful, centralized federal government, answerable to nobody.

**Red Harvest** · 07-08-2005, 21:01

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Abe Lincoln reminds me a lot of George W Bush.

I think it would be hard to find two men more different. Dubya would like to compare himself to many great men, but he isn't one of 'em. Dubya has not faced 10% of the crisis that Lincoln or FDR did. Lincoln inherited a divided nation. He strived to maintain unity in what remained of the nation, while Dubya has sought through every act to divide what he inherited. Lincoln successfully walked a diplomatic tight rope with Europe while engaged in a major war of survival. Dubya wrecked our relations with Europe with some fabricated WMD claims. Lincoln intended to be magnanimous in victory upon re-uniting the nation, but he was gunned down by a misguided southern lunatic. Dubya hasn't even managed to fulfill our obligations in Afghanistan.

I can't imagine how Dubya's fiscal policies could compare with Lincoln's. Lincoln took steps to maintain the nations finances during a tremendous crisis, while Dubya has pushed in exactly the opposite direction. Most importantly, Lincoln was an articulate, literate man--you won't be hearing those terms used to describe Dubya.

Lincoln did what was needed to preserve the nation and move it forward. Too much of what I hear from Dubya's base is geared toward regressing.