To the members of the EB Team

[Swedish Conqueror]

Hi all. This is my first post here, ive been visiting this forum every week to read the countdowns. I registered now to post this idea of mine:

Couldnt one of the EB members make a new stickied EB Progress/Status Thread? I know there already is one, but i feel its not up to date and not very informative.

It would be with a progress indicator, like:

Factions (unit models and skins, symbols and icons, buildings, boats)

Already previewed:
Ptolemaioi - xx%
Tsorim - xx%
Aedui - xx%
Baktria - xx%
Arche Seleukeia- xx%
Swêbōz - 60-70% (thanks SaFe)
Makedonia - xx%
Eleutheroi - xx%
Casse - xx%
Pontos - xx%

Not yet previewed, the names are not necessarily those EB use:
Rome - xx%
Allied Hellenes - xx%
Sarmatians - xx%
Iberians - xx%
Thrakia - xx%
Parthia - xx%

Game systems (new economic systems, that sort of game things)
- xx%

EB Traits and Ancillaries
- 35% (thanks Malrubius)

Map (the map and provinces, resources, new graphics (generals, agents, watchtowers and stuff)
- 90% (thanks eadingas)

Audio (music, new unit voices)
- xx%

Closed Beta Testing (maybe hard to estimate)
- xx%

All i can think of for now. All numbers are of course very approximate. No need to say this but if this takes too much time dont do it.


EDIT: Updated

[Steppe Merc]

Well if we told you all the factions we didn't show you yet, that would sort of defeat the purpose of having secrets, no?

[Spitful]

have we really only got 5 factions left? Time flies :)
Seems reasonable but probably should have hte non prewvied factions roled together into a single average value ot preserve secrets but still allow you to tell us progress,
Also, could after your finished do sort of a roma type thing for EB as i enjoy it for RTR 5.4.1

[Swedish Conqueror]

Yea yea no need to show any secrets... even thou i think i got the factions right (maybe i forgot someone i didnt count). You could treat the faction i called rome in a way that fits.
The thing im looking for is if any of the EB members could replace all the xx with a adequate number reflecting the progress of that part... please

[King of Atlantis]

You left out parthia..

[Idomeneas]

Well if we told you all the factions we didn't show you yet, that would sort of defeat the purpose of having secrets, no?

i think guys this secrecy obsession should have a limit. Ok its secret the exact type and number of units per culture, its secret how some of them look, its secret the strategic map new features, its secret EVEN HOW MANY FACTIONS WILL BE??
Jesus the point of teasing advertisement is to TEASE not leave BLIND!!! In this way public will start losing interest, and i know you ll say you dont care, but if you dont care whats the point for this forum?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

i think guys this secrecy obsession should have a limit. Ok its secret the exact type and number of units per culture, its secret how some of them look, its secret the strategic map new features, its secret EVEN HOW MANY FACTIONS WILL BE??
Jesus the point of teasing advertisement is to TEASE not leave BLIND!!! In this way public will start losing interest, and i know you ll say you dont care, but if you dont care whats the point for this forum?

Calm down guys. The "iron curtain" won't be lifting fully till the open beta comes out, and although we've had internal discussions about the benefits from keeping some things quiet, the main reason for it is to make the experience more enjoyable and more "fresh" for the players, in my opinion. It's a good question, but we're almost all entirely satisfied with the decision on the whole, and we sincerely hope that when it does come out that the players will enjoy it a lot more given the significant other changes we haven't talked about. Having said that, the next preview will be a little different I think, and may give you a better understanding of some aspects that we've been quiet about up until now. Just hang on a bit more.

[Idomeneas]

Calm down guys. The "iron curtain" won't be lifting fully till the open beta comes out, and although we've had internal discussions about the benefits from keeping some things quiet, the main reason for it is to make the experience more enjoyable and more "fresh" for the players, in my opinion. It's a good question, but we're almost all entirely satisfied with the decision on the whole, and we sincerely hope that when it does come out that the players will enjoy it a lot more given the significant other changes we haven't talked about. Having said that, the next preview will be a little different I think, and may give you a better understanding of some aspects that we've been quiet about up until now. Just hang on a bit more.

Τήλεκλε i understand your policy (even if i dont agree) and i know you have the best intentions. But this kind of strategy can work its best only when there is perfect coordination and strict deadlines. For example the previews have to be on time every week in order to give alittle things to public in return for its interest. Now dont throw anything at me . I know that there cannot be such thing as strict deadlines in a volunteer project where anything is done in free (if there is) time. And trust me i know about creative procedure more than many. I face everyday clients that think i take stuff out of my pocket. But you choose to adapt a company tactic for a comunity product. Maybe you should change the way you present EB.
Maybe this per faction preview doesnt work really since i guess different people do different units and its hard to coordinate them. Maybe you should present everything that its ready every week. I know its more messy but its something. I know its gonna be great but if you care about having people onboard you ve got to give something. Swedish Conqueror's idea was not bad at all. This way people will be teased even more watching a per cent progress

[khelvan]

But you choose to adapt a company tactic for a comunity product. Maybe you should change the way you present EB.

Sorry, the RTW community is very different from most modding communities in that respect. The various benefits and drawbacks of having teams working on individual mods that aren't completely open can be debated, but RTW is in the minority in that respect (most mod communities I have seem have teams that don't detail everything they're doing for the public - they share information about modding freely, but they keep what they're doing hidden from the fans to one extent or another).

We've chosen the standard way of making mods, not a "company" way.

[Swedish Conqueror]

khelvan while youre here please fill in the xx with adequate numbers.

[Idomeneas]

Sorry, the RTW community is very different from most modding communities in that respect. The various benefits and drawbacks of having teams working on individual mods that aren't completely open can be debated, but RTW is in the minority in that respect (most mod communities I have seem have teams that don't detail everything they're doing for the public - they share information about modding freely, but they keep what they're doing hidden from the fans to one extent or another).

We've chosen the standard way of making mods, not a "company" way.

ok granted, then why all this forum stuff and discussions if the intent was to work in a ''secret laboratory''? Why not come a day and say ''hey we made a mod!!! and it rocks!!''. I thought you wanted the public to participate and more than less that public filled in your ranks when they admired your work.
Anyway the fact is that this forum is dying out. It used to rain posts and now only few real posts among ''wow'' ''great'' etch stuff.
I know that this place will revive when beta is out but till then you gotta give something. Swedish Conqueror had a good idea IMO and its nothing big to do.
The previews system as is i think it doesnt work cause you got to have a faction ready each time. Try showing seperate units. You will give more eyecandy and be less anxious about completing everything in a faction so you can display it.

[The Wizard]

Well, if you want to change this state of affairs, you can PM our managers, khelvan and Aymar Du Bois Mauri.

In the PM, include how you think you can help EB, and perhaps give an example. We'll take what you say into account and see what we can do with it. EB might be big on secrecy, but it's still a community project.



~Wiz

[caesar44]

[QUOTE=Swedish Conqueror] Tsorim xx%

Tsorim ???????????????????
In ancient Phoenicia there was a city named Tsor , the people of Tsor established a colony in North Africa , named Kret Hadeshet , that is , "the new city" , now to call the Carthaginians "Tsorim" is as to call the romans "Albanians" , there is no logic in that
"Tsorim" means , the people from Tsor , now , in 218 bce , to call the Carthaginians "the people from Tsor"....think about it

[saulot333]

[QUOTE=caesar44]

Tsorim xx%

Tsorim ???????????????????
In ancient Phoenicia there was a city named Tsor , the people of Tsor established a colony in North Africa , named Kret Hadeshet , that is , "the new city" , now to call the Carthaginians "Tsorim" is as to call the romans "Albanians" , there is no logic in that
"Tsorim" means , the people from Tsor , now , in 218 bce , to call the Carthaginians "the people from Tsor"....think about it

If a EB member see this you are going to enter a world of utter pain man...run for cover

[Productivity]

[QUOTE=caesar44]

Tsorim xx%

Tsorim ???????????????????
In ancient Phoenicia there was a city named Tsor , the people of Tsor established a colony in North Africa , named Kret Hadeshet , that is , "the new city" , now to call the Carthaginians "Tsorim" is as to call the romans "Albanians" , there is no logic in that
"Tsorim" means , the people from Tsor , now , in 218 bce , to call the Carthaginians "the people from Tsor"....think about it

Given your response to that post, this thread may just make you explode.

[Swedish Conqueror]

Ive seen many EB members droping by without commenting my idea... I would be very glad if any of you could say something

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Ive seen many EB members droping by without commenting my idea... I would be very glad if any of you could say something

There are a couple of obstacles though SC. The first is the desire to have a little bit of an element of surprise (whether or not folks agree with it - it's what is going to happen by decision of the mod members). The other is that it would actually take a fair amount of time; someone would have to be appointed to do it internally, then they would have to pester the Faction Coordinators for estimates (who would then need to look at individual things in the factions to determine it and respond) and then continue to do it to keep it updated. They also would have to pester animation and modelling and texture coordinators, mapmakers, people working on buildings, and lots of other coordinators of things I can't even mention here . It would be a big new task upon us that might merit more consideration if we wanted to reveal it in the first place. Hope this isn't really bad news though. We really are pushing hard to get it done and talk about these things every day internally. We want it done even more than you guys, honestly!

[Steppe Merc]

We haven't decided the final name for Carthage, yet.

[SaFe]

just to let you know i safely can say the Swêbōz units are finished 60%-70%.
Names and province names are done also.
And...a few other things
Hope that helps.

[The Wizard]

[QUOTE=caesar44]

Tsorim xx%

Tsorim ???????????????????
In ancient Phoenicia there was a city named Tsor , the people of Tsor established a colony in North Africa , named Kret Hadeshet , that is , "the new city" , now to call the Carthaginians "Tsorim" is as to call the romans "Albanians" , there is no logic in that
"Tsorim" means , the people from Tsor , now , in 218 bce , to call the Carthaginians "the people from Tsor"....think about it

This has been gone over so many times that it is starting to make me groan just thinking of it.

Tsorim indeed refers to Tyr. We had several options in a poll amongst Carthaginian historians, and Tsorim won out. Our etymologists are, however, still debating if the name is correct.

However, your argumentation is incorrect. Phoenicians liked to refer to themselves as Cannaanites. This is proven by evidence both from Carthage as from Phoenicia itself. Would you propose not to refer to the Carthaginians as Canaanites just because they no longer lived in Canaan?



~Wiz

[Malrubius]

Ive seen many EB members droping by without commenting my idea... I would be very glad if any of you could say something

I don't see EB Traits and Ancillaries on your list there, and it's the only area in which I'm competent enough to comment. It would be a subcategory of Game Systems. Like most everything else, this is a total conversion, with an entire reworking being undertaken.

Short answer: about 25% complete. But don't worry, the open beta won't be delayed because a trait isn't finished.

[pezhetairoi]

Malrubius' sig just reminded me--isn't Makedonia supposed to be Makedon? As far as I know the F.Y.R.O.M is the first state to bear the name of Macedonia because the historic name was Macedon? I mean, he was Alexander of -Macedon- after all, and the reason why everyone adds -ia, to me, seems to be just a habit of English suffixing.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

it...seems to be just a habit of English suffixing.

Pez, pez, pez...

(hê Makedonia - as early as Herodotos)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&loc=Macedonia

See also N.G.L. Hammond's explanation in his 1972 A History of Macedonia 1: Historical Geography and Prehistory (Oxford).

[caesar44]

We haven't decided the final name for Carthage, yet.

Thank you

[caesar44]

[QUOTE=The Wizard]

[b]

This has been gone over so many times that it is starting to make me groan just thinking of it.

Tsorim indeed refers to Tyr. We had several options in a poll amongst Carthaginian historians, and Tsorim won out. Our etymologists are, however, still debating if the name is correct.

However, your argumentation is incorrect. Phoenicians liked to refer to themselves as Cannaanites. This is proven by evidence both from Carthage as from Phoenicia itself. Would you propose not to refer to the Carthaginians as Canaanites just because they no longer lived in Canaan?



~Wiz

Give me a solid proof that anybody at any time called Carthage - "Tsorim" , again , they came from Tsor , that is Tyre , and established a new city , that is , Karet Hadeshet , in modern Hebrew - Qirya Hadasha

The Dorians established dozens of colonies with specific names like Sparta and Corinth , did any historian called the Spartans , Dorians ? Carthage , like Sparta , was a distinct political entity , and that is the main thing

[Keyser]

But Tyr had fallen to Alexander and if i am not mistaken many people from there (and the rest of phoenicia) emigrated to the west colonies and Carthage after that, then i think the punic colonies weren't originaly as independant toward their metropol than the greek ones (the rise of Carthage being mostly due to the fall of Tyr). That could explain the Tyrian "nationalism" in keeping "Tsorim" as a way of naming themselves.

By the way iirc we don't know how the "phoenician" (in the greek and roman sense) called themselves as a people (or if they really were a distinct people from other cannanites).

[Swedish Conqueror]

Thank you very much SaFe and Malrubius for posting your progress.
The first post is updated.

There are a couple of obstacles though SC. The first is the desire to have a little bit of an element of surprise (whether or not folks agree with it - it's what is going to happen by decision of the mod members). The other is that it would actually take a fair amount of time; someone would have to be appointed to do it internally, then they would have to pester the Faction Coordinators for estimates (who would then need to look at individual things in the factions to determine it and respond) and then continue to do it to keep it updated. They also would have to pester animation and modelling and texture coordinators, mapmakers, people working on buildings, and lots of other coordinators of things I can't even mention here . It would be a big new task upon us that might merit more consideration if we wanted to reveal it in the first place. Hope this isn't really bad news though. We really are pushing hard to get it done and talk about these things every day internally. We want it done even more than you guys, honestly!

I agree that an element of surprise is good. But i cant see why that would be an obstacle, eg what secrets did SaFe reveal when he stated that Swêbōz units are finished 60%-70%? What is so secret about the progress of the mod?
But i do agree i may take some time, but i thought maybe someone could just give some approximate numbers. I dont need "49.15% done", better saying like "60%-70% done", like SaFe.

[eadingas]

Honestly speaking, we tried to make this kind of thread in our secret forum a few times, and even there it didn't work. It's hard to get all the stuff coordinated with the way EB team works. Let's just say that we're closer to the end than to the beginning :)

The tentative estimate on campaign map is about 90%. Very little will change from what you've seen in this week's preview, mostly more details added, and some names changed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Give me a solid proof that anybody at any time called Carthage - "Tsorim" , again ,

The use of imperatives to demand responses from volunteer modders is probably not the best way to elicit the desired information. But that's just my opinion.

[caesar44]

The use of imperatives to demand responses from volunteer modders is probably not the best way to elicit the desired information. But that's just my opinion.

What
Imperative?????????????
We are just discussing history here , man , calm down