Armour in the desert

[CBR]

Infantry with armour 1-2 has same fatigue as normal (as in not being in a desert at all) the higher the value after 1-2 the quicker the units gets fatigued.

For cavalry its armour 2-3.


CBR

[IrishMike]

Personally I never worry about the armor amount. Unless its a Multiplayer game, I just take the heavy infantry into battle and the heavy calv. Of course their is not much moving around, no fancy tactics, just a straight head on advance and attack. Most Muslim factions won't be able to stand up to this, untill the very late game, so its not really a concern.

[EatYerGreens]

Tigger,

excuse my ignorance but what is level 5 armour? The only levels I know of are plain (none), dark grey (gunmetal? colour), silver and gold. Am I missing one there? Like 'bronze' colour, or something?



I don't see armour for desert troops as an absolute no-no though. If you can afford the luxury, you might want to have an armoured army at the frontier province and keep back an unarmoured army for counter attacking, should you ever lose a territory.

Reason being, when defending, you want them to come to you, then be able to slug it out and surviving the slugging matches are what armour is all about. Fatigue is not a problem if the enemy are running off the field...

Meanwhile, when you're on the offensive, you need the extra endurance and speed of movement and may have to accept the likelihood of higher casualties.

[ichi]

Tigger,

excuse my ignorance but what is level 5 armour? The only levels I know of are plain (none), dark grey (gunmetal? colour), silver and gold. Am I missing one there? Like 'bronze' colour, or something?

Each unit starts with a base armor value, hit F1 during a battle for a screen that will show the armor (as well as att. def, and morale) stats for your guys.

Each upgrading of armor (grey silver gold) adds plus one to your unit's armor stat.

There are some Muslim units that start with armor level 5, and I've found that it is possible to use these units in the desert successfully, you just can't let them stand forever, or run them too much.

Of course, as CBR and others have stated, units with low armor (1-2) fatigue much slower in the hot sun.

ichi

[EatYerGreens]

Thanks for the insight ichi,

if you hadn't told me, I would have thought F1 would have brought up some kind of help menu. (doh!!) Well, I said I was ignorant. Is this another one of these undocumented features? How the heck did people find these things out by accident, is what I have to wonder.


Anyway, stopping to press keys and gaze at stats during a battle? That's a whole new ball game to me - I'm far too carried away by the action to even think of stuff like that. (Can it be done before pressing the 'Begin Battle' button?)

By contrast, I've seen posts from people to whom the concept of conducting battles without resorting to issuing battle orders in pause mode is a whole new concept too.

Not that I'm a denizen of the multiplayer rooms though - I've never actually tried MP yet - it's more to do with acknowledgment of the fact that real-life generals weren't superhuman, did not have a bird's eye view of the action and there's a limit to how complex an order can be when it needs to be executed seconds from now. In other words conveyed by the medieval equivalent of the bugle-call, rather than by a rider, with all the delay that entails.

There are times when my units are off chasing things and I will use the local unit-view to find out what's going on and act as unit commander for a moment but that's as far as I'll use the 'demigod' mode. Most of the time, it's a case of organised chaos with me, even when I'm winning. I think I'd get eaten alive on MP.

[antisocialmunky]

I've never used pause in a fight, it takes away the challenge. I've never found the need to really.

[Patron]

You can only train Gallowglasses in Ireland and Ireland doesn't have rich iron deposits. How do you up the attack by 3? Without modding.

[ichi]

Thanks for the insight ichi,

if you hadn't told me, I would have thought F1 would have brought up some kind of help menu. (doh!!) Well, I said I was ignorant. Is this another one of these undocumented features? How the heck did people find these things out by accident, is what I have to wonder.


Anyway, stopping to press keys and gaze at stats during a battle? That's a whole new ball game to me - I'm far too carried away by the action to even think of stuff like that. (Can it be done before pressing the 'Begin Battle' button?)

By contrast, I've seen posts from people to whom the concept of conducting battles without resorting to issuing battle orders in pause mode is a whole new concept too.

Not that I'm a denizen of the multiplayer rooms though - I've never actually tried MP yet - it's more to do with acknowledgment of the fact that real-life generals weren't superhuman, did not have a bird's eye view of the action and there's a limit to how complex an order can be when it needs to be executed seconds from now. In other words conveyed by the medieval equivalent of the bugle-call, rather than by a rider, with all the delay that entails.

There are times when my units are off chasing things and I will use the local unit-view to find out what's going on and act as unit commander for a moment but that's as far as I'll use the 'demigod' mode. Most of the time, it's a case of organised chaos with me, even when I'm winning. I think I'd get eaten alive on MP.

If you haven't tried MP, I still highly recommend it. The AI can throw some things at you, but a human can really make things tough.

And, it will help improve your ability to organize.

ichi

[Ironside]

Been experimenting with using troops without any armour upgrades. It's a semi expensive method though, as your first line will often loose, but the second won't , as the enemy gets exhausted troops for the rest of the battle. No need to care about tired troops.

Although I think a medium armored first line, withdrawed after the first battle and replaced with light troops, would work best.

[EatYerGreens]

If you haven't tried MP, I still highly recommend it. The AI can throw some things at you, but a human can really make things tough.

I know. That's what I'm worried about.
I frequently win against the AI but sometimes it's a real struggle. Whatever the 'grand plan' was, it usually ends up as a firefighting exercise, shifting attention from one crisis to the next and just ordering (to engage) whichever unit is closest to the one most in need of help rather than sending the correct troop types against their best target.

When I do win, even then it's mostly down to making sure I outnumber or out-quality the opposing side before the off, which is a very conservative approach and doesn't speak particularly well for my abilities. I just bank on half my army routing at a critical point so always bring plenty of excess.

I actually don't mind getting beaten by the AI, since it's generally a case of me under-garrisoning a province and getting steam-rollered off whatever hill I've perched myself on. If I lose when attacking then I only have myself to blame for stuffing it up.

Now, losing to another person is a completely different matter.

Slap the 'pride' vice on my parchment!

And, it will help improve your ability to organize.

Aye, 's true.

On the other hand, part of the chaos is down to troops not behaving as expected. On defence, I set the to hold position but there comes a time when something comes within reach and it's worth a quick charge to take advantage of the downslope. Only trouble being if the attackers run away, they then give chase. Sometimes they could be beyond the halfway line before they properly disengage and start trudging back to their 'hold' point and after all the running, they're knackered. All the while, I have a gap in my line which needs to be filled. Straightforward stuff, I know, but when my attention is held by action elsewhere, I sometimes don't see this chase going on and more than likely my runaway unit is being eaten up or captured by the incoming enemy reinforcements line.

So, in a no-pause battle and when I'm on the ball, I'm as often hitting the 'halt' button as all other orders combined and then ordering troops back into proper position when I should be focusing on various ongoing meleés. Sometimes the halt button greys-out for a unit, even when they are attacking, or chasing routers off the field and I want them to come back!

Of course unit impetuousness (either inherent in the unit type or affected by the situation or the 'general's reputation' thing) is written into the game and it's a factor which may have scuppered many a real-life general's battle plans...

I don't know if using 'engage at will' would improve things or make them disengage from a chase any more quickly. There are times when I see a unit 2 seconds' walk away from another which is in trouble and are in a position to flank the attackers with less than a quarter turn and they just sit there and watch. One would like to be able to leave the local commander to decide on the best course of action but they usually have to be told. Grrr

[bretwalda]

Thanks for the insight ichi,

if you hadn't told me, I would have thought F1 would have brought up some kind of help menu. (doh!!) Well, I said I was ignorant. Is this another one of these undocumented features? How the heck did people find these things out by accident, is what I have to wonder.


Anyway, stopping to press keys and gaze at stats during a battle? That's a whole new ball game to me - I'm far too carried away by the action to even think of stuff like that. (Can it be done before pressing the 'Begin Battle' button?)

By contrast, I've seen posts from people to whom the concept of conducting battles without resorting to issuing battle orders in pause mode is a whole new concept too.

Not that I'm a denizen of the multiplayer rooms though - I've never actually tried MP yet - it's more to do with acknowledgment of the fact that real-life generals weren't superhuman, did not have a bird's eye view of the action and there's a limit to how complex an order can be when it needs to be executed seconds from now. In other words conveyed by the medieval equivalent of the bugle-call, rather than by a rider, with all the delay that entails.

There are times when my units are off chasing things and I will use the local unit-view to find out what's going on and act as unit commander for a moment but that's as far as I'll use the 'demigod' mode. Most of the time, it's a case of organised chaos with me, even when I'm winning. I think I'd get eaten alive on MP.

Yes, you can press F1 anytime on the battle screen. However there are some differences in a real battle and in a virtual battle that can justify using the pause button (of course only in single player because you can't stop multiplayer).

E.g. you could tell one of your unit leaders who leads 39 turcoman horseriders, that

"now as the battle start you go around the flank and start peppering the other army general. If any heavy cavalry starts chasing you then run and skirmish with your arrows. Keep away from any archers. Good Luck!"

You cannot do this in the virtual battle, so you need to give orders on by one. Sometimes many in one second. Also I very often mis-click (clicking another unit or in between units in the bottom unit bar by giving move order instead of switching units).

In multiplayer your adversary faces the same problems and challenges but AI does not. With the _sensible_ use of pause button your battles stay organized and if you replay it won't be a mess of troops slugging out (sometimes that happens even then...)

[Martok]

As a general rule, the most armour I'll give to any unit is usually +2 (unless their armour rating already starts out higher, of course), maybe +3. This is especially true of light cavalry, as I like them to be able to remain mobile without tiring in the first minute of battle. (Besides, in my opinion, light cav shouldn't attack anything where it would need a higher armour bonus than that anyway. )

Of course, as 3 of my favorite factions are the Spanish, Egyptians, and Byzantines, I'm used to fighting in the desert a lot, and I tend to play to each of those factions' strengths. So since a lot of Byz of units start out with pretty high armour bonuses (katanks, VG, PA, Byz Inf. Byz Lancers, etc.), I usually don't need to go in for a lot of armour upgrades, if at all. Since most Egyptian units are built for speed and/or stamina, I'll give them just 2-3 armour upgrades.

The Spanish are a little trickier, as I have them fighting a lot of desert battles (against the Almos and later on the Egyptians). Since they're a Catholic faction, however, their units are built for strength and power--and therefore you generally want to give them more armour bonuses to augment this.

In the end, what I usually wind up doing with most factions is have half my provinces training units with a lot of armour bonuses (usually heavy infantry and spear/seargent/pike units, as they generally don't move around a whole lot), and the other half training units with just a couple armour upgrades (usually missile units, cavarly, and any fast infantry with a high attack/defense ratio, such as Ghazi's or Highland Clansmen).