Are Baggalas meant to be able to do this?

[EatYerGreens]

I'm trying my first muslim campaign at the moment and have found something peculiar about the Baggalas.

All ships I've tried with catholics and up to the Dhow stage with the Almos will only move one sea zone per turn. I now discover that the Baggies can move two, if not three sea areas per turn.

For example, Straits of Gibraltar to North Atlantic, too see if Ireland was still up for grabs (it wasn't) is two zones but ISTR the North Sea also lit up as available. On the following turn I could have reached the Baltic - 3 zones.
From Central Med, most of the rest of the med could be accessed and maybe just the one zone short of Constantinople.

Interestingly, access to the deep water zones did become unlocked for the baggalas after the compass discovery was announced. I'm still using vanilla 1.0 and have prior experience of the level 2 catholic/ortho ships not being able to do this - a known bug.

If someone can confirm this was fixed by the VI install or some subsequent patch I should be applying then, as well as being most grateful, I think I'd be happy to ditch yet another pair of unfinished 1.0 campaigns and finally get around to putting VI in place.


Sidebar:
It's a pity that the Speed 2, 3, or 4, listed on the ship desctiption parchment doesn't mean number of sea zones you can move through per year. You can sail around the entire world in less time than that! This would be handy when exploring, reccie-ing and either evading enemy fleets or formating en masse for a big attack then redistributing into trade-chain positions the following year.

I could go on about silly troop-movement restrictions but it would side-track the whole point of the thread...

[Soulfly]

The Baggala (and everything after it) is a deep sea ship, and as such can move multiple spaces, as well as through deep sea regions :).

The ship's type is identified on its unit card (coastal or deep sea).

Deep Sea ships for the Catholics are caravels and upwards.

The Byzantines, Italians and Sicilians get no Deep Sea ships I believe.

[EatYerGreens]

The Baggala (and everything after it) is a deep sea ship, and as such can move multiple spaces, as well as through deep sea regions :).

The ship's type is identified on its unit card (coastal or deep sea).

Deep Sea ships for the Catholics are caravels and upwards.

The Byzantines, Italians and Sicilians get no Deep Sea ships I believe.

Thanks Soulfly.

I was aware that Baggies are meant to be deep-sea type, only hadn't come across the multi-zone movement before and wondered if it was a bug or intentional as it isn't mentioned in the game manual!!!

As I've yet to totally complete an MTW campaign (mid-game boredom, desire to try another faction, HDD failure etc) the furthest I ever got to was Caravels. I'm now puzzled since, when I used those, they seemed to only be allowed single-zone moves as well. Almost every attempted attack on Arab vessels failed but I previously thought this was down to their better speed rating. Now I know that movement allowance is a factor too.

Interesting point about the Byz and others not getting any deep sea vessels, I'll need to bear that in mind.

Sometimes a conflict starts with a faction who you don't share a land border with and the only way to break off hostilities and restore trade is to move ships to where they have none present. When they have ships absolutely everywhere this is easier to say than achieve. Ability to break out into unoccupied deep water would be a godsend.

Now if only they could get the campaign map to stack its vessels properly. That tiny puddle next to Constantinople only has room for about a dozen scattered ship markers. It becomes next to impossible to plop your own ship into that zone.

And another thing, when it 'tidies' the map, your ship stack disappears behind the mess of other factions' ships so sometimes you forget it's there. I superstitiously move every ship on every turn by swapping pairs or rotating around Cyprus etc. in the hope that it wards off attacks and putting them in places where they can barely be seen doesn't help me.

[EatYerGreens]

This is worth a separate post, so it isn't lost in the waffle.

It's about Dhows, not Baggalas but we're on the subject of ships in general so better to have one thread than two.

The region parchment for Algeria says +1 valour bonus on Dhows produced there, so I go ahead and tech up to Keep/Shipbuilder only to find the first half-dozen ships are all no-star admirals (I have a no-star Sultan, with 'inbred' !!! does leader star rating affect admirals in some way?) and there's no valour-1 marker on either the unit icon or on its description parchment.

I now have no way to tell them apart from the Dhows I've begun building in Leon. With all the position swapping I fuss about with, this could become a pain.

Is there a bug with the Algeria valour bonus?
Is it fixed in the VI patch?

I'd love to complete a vanilla V1.0 campaign but I'm becoming increasingly more prepared to ditch several weeks' campaign efforts to get things like these working correctly.

[ichi]

My suggestion is to get the Vikings Expansion, the bugs that are fixed, along with the Vikings campaign, and some very cool new factions in the Medieval campaign, make it worthwhile. Short of dishing out more bucks, you really should d/l and install 1.1

ichi

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There is a down side to the extra factions though, they stop the AI expanding, so you never get a real challenge.

[ichi]

There is a down side to the extra factions though, they stop the AI expanding, so you never get a real challenge.

I never really experienced a difference between MTW and VI in how the AI expands, but regardless, the expansion and patch really is worth it.

ichi

[BAD]

I never really experienced a difference between MTW and VI in how the AI expands, but regardless, the expansion and patch really is worth it.

ichi

+1

[antisocialmunky]

This is worth a separate post, so it isn't lost in the waffle.

It's about Dhows, not Baggalas but we're on the subject of ships in general so better to have one thread than two.

The region parchment for Algeria says +1 valour bonus on Dhows produced there, so I go ahead and tech up to Keep/Shipbuilder only to find the first half-dozen ships are all no-star admirals (I have a no-star Sultan, with 'inbred' !!! does leader star rating affect admirals in some way?) and there's no valour-1 marker on either the unit icon or on its description parchment.

I now have no way to tell them apart from the Dhows I've begun building in Leon. With all the position swapping I fuss about with, this could become a pain.

Is there a bug with the Algeria valour bonus?
Is it fixed in the VI patch?

I'd love to complete a vanilla V1.0 campaign but I'm becoming increasingly more prepared to ditch several weeks' campaign efforts to get things like these working correctly.

Check the unit's command stars. Ships get command stars.

[EatYerGreens]

Check the unit's command stars. Ships get command stars.

Okay, that means it's definitely broken in vanilla MTW then. As I said, out of the first 6 ships I built, I got just the one, 1-star, admiral.

By the way, my posts are often on the wordy side, so I have no objection to quotes being edited down to just the line you're addressing. No need to paste the whole lot back into the thread.

----------------- 2 posts for the price of 1 ---------------------

Ichy,

I keep saying that I already own a copy of VI. I just haven't installed it yet as I want to enjoy the original version for what it was before I go changing stuff so radically. I think you've posted an almost identical reply on that other thread about trading and ships where I'd posted about v1.0 glitches.

I read in a thread somewhere that a 'budget' release of MTW has come out (the person referred to WalMart) and a lot of new users were coming onto the forum. As far as I can tell, it's not being bundled with the Viking expansion, so they won't be able to relate to half the talk on here.

By playing v1.0 and finding out various oddities and faults with it, I'm hoping my posts prove helpful to those who are equally new to MTW. For the forum regulars, this is going to be very old news. Sorry about that.

[littlebktruck]

I read in a thread somewhere that a 'budget' release of MTW has come out (the person referred to WalMart) and a lot of new users were coming onto the forum. As far as I can tell, it's not being bundled with the Viking expansion, so they won't be able to relate to half the talk on here.

By playing v1.0 and finding out various oddities and faults with it, I'm hoping my posts prove helpful to those who are equally new to MTW. For the forum regulars, this is going to be very old news. Sorry about that.

For what it's worth, the bargain version ships with v1.1.

[antisocialmunky]

The MTW + VI version is 20 bucks for anyone who wants to get it.

[Eternal Champion]

For what it's worth, the bargain version ships with v1.1.

Mine didn't, but it's not a big deal to download the patch.

The MTW + VI version is 20 bucks for anyone who wants to get it

Yes and it really is the much better way to go. I bought the $10 bargain version, got hooked and had to pay the $20 anyway because just VI is near impossible to find. Even on E-Bay folks want $10 for VI plus $5 shipping.

[EatYerGreens]

I gather that these things are shipping without the original game manual. Maybe that explains the lower price?

Anyone familiar with the ShogunTW series will feel right at home though and can easily cope without the manual. Anyone else can probably get by just by what the in-game info parchments tell them, plus have an entertaining time slowly discovering new building and unit types and working it all out for themselves.

Those who do have the manual and the tech tree are at an advantage in knowing what they can work towards in advance. For everyone else maybe it's just a case of paying attention to what your roaming agents discover in AI territory and simply trying to keep pace in the arms race by attempting to match their level of development.

[Procrustes]

Those who do have the manual and the tech tree are at an advantage in knowing what they can work towards in advance. For everyone else maybe it's just a case of paying attention to what your roaming agents discover in AI territory and simply trying to keep pace in the arms race by attempting to match their level of development.

Actually, I find the manual and the tech tree that were included with the program to be pretty limited - you can find a lot more information about the game in the files that are posted around here. I'd suggest starting with the unit guide, faq, and economics 101 guide. The best tech tree I found is called the "MTW Info Pack".