Patriotism

[Don Corleone]

And we dont have to draft like some european countries. We have many people that want to join the army. Surley thats patriotism.

I agree with you that the guys that volunteer certainly are patriotic. But that's not a particularly large minority of Americans.

And European countries don't draft because their citizens won't sign up. They do it to keep an egalitarian air to their military, every man's duty. It also keeps 18-22 year old men from screwing up their lives by getting too much freedom without enough brainpower to use it properly.

As far as the anthem goes, you're confusing nationalism for patriotism. Nationalism is a deep sense of pride in your nation, and that's where 4th of July, National Anthem, and all the rest stems from. Patriotism, as I said, is putting your country's needs above your own.

There's a guy in our city about 83 years old. Every 4th of July, he causes a huge ruckus by burning the flag in the Courthouse Square. He takes a LOT of abuse for doing this, as we're in North Carolina. What most people don't realize is that he's not burning the flag in protest, per se. He fought and almost died planting that flag on Iwo Jima (one of yours, Gawain) and he wants everyone to rememer that the right to burn it is what it stands for in the first place. In my mind, at 83 years old, putting up with people screaming and spitting at you, that's patriotism. (And don't tell anyone around here, cause the guys WANTS to get that reaction, but he only uses flags that had been turned in to his VFW to be burned anyway).

[Steppe Merc]

I think America is patriotic, though Don's arguments to the contrary make sense.

I'm not patriotic. I don't dislike America, but I'm not particullary proud of it or it's history.

And European countries don't draft because their citizens won't sign up. They do it to keep an egalitarian air to their military, every man's duty. It also keeps 18-22 year old men from screwing up their lives by getting too much freedom without enough brainpower to use it properly.

Drafts are wrong, especially pointless ones when the countries never actually fight wars.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

drafts are best when beer is involved.

[King of Atlantis]

well don, i guess I(and many others) use the words interchangabley, so technically your right.

[Don Corleone]

That's all I'm saying. And yes, Americans are quite possibly the most nationalistic people in the world. It's all that we have that unites us, as we're relatively young and come from such a multitude of cultures.

In many parts of Europe, flying your nations flag outside your house on any given day of the week (not a holiday) indicates you've crossed over into the dark world of too-nationalist.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Yes it all shallow, but think. When people sing the national antem, most people take off their hats and sing proudly.

And we dont have to draft like some european countries. We have many people that want to join the army. Surley thats patriotism.

Every time i sing God save the queen i sing it as loud as i can, i'm very proud of my country and will always support it.

[Viking]

(...) Was this wrong?

Pretty much, yes. You can sing 'God Save the Queen' at the national day of England or any day else, but not when your supposed to celebrate the Manx national day. It`s a matter of respect

Imagine I would sing the swedish national anthem at Norways national day(not that I woud do that, no way!).

[Radier]

I consider myself a patriot and a nationalist. Soon I am to be called for the miltaryduty, and God how I long for the deep and cold woodlands of Sweden.

Last year I started in a new class and when my classmates heard I was a nationalist some directly asked if I were a nazist/rascist. It´s so taboo here in Sweden to be proud of your country! Sad indeed...

[Steppe Merc]

What is Manx? Sorry, I don't quite understand the context...

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I know some people don't like wikipedia for whatever reasons but it gives you a nice overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man

Manx is the adjective to describe something from there.

also, here's the entry for the Manx national anthem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of...ational_Anthem

[Beirut]

I'm very patriotic.

The way I see it, if Canada is the greatest country in the world, which it is, and I am lucky enough to be Canadian, the least I can do is show my thanks by standing up for my country.

Canada - We're so cool we're frozen.

[ichi]

I consider mysef very patriotic, even if it means standing up and telling the bastards that run the country to 'get bent'

ichi

[JAG]

Patriotism is very sad, anyone who is so hostile to other people - as the first post illustrated - simply because they are born in a different area on the globe, is bloody sad.

A country is the people and the people are not who they are based on their country, but their own choices. Why then worship a country through patriotism. Very strange.

[Papewaio]

Patriotic as in Proud.
Jingoistic as in Hubris.

I would say interrupting a nations anthem is a rude thing to do and an act of Hubris. One does not show how proud they are for their own nation by being rude to another, if anything such a boorish act also brings your own nation into disrepute. Just like the football hooligans and other louts do as well.

I am proud of being an Australian and a Kiwi (and Fijian born, and Britian too as I can get right of abode). However that does not mean I will kowtow to the government, but I do vote with both the ballet and the wallet.

[Papewaio]

Patriotism is very sad, anyone who is so hostile to other people - as the first post illustrated - simply because they are born in a different area on the globe, is bloody sad.

A country is the people and the people are not who they are based on their country, but their own choices. Why then worship a country through patriotism. Very strange.

Don't confuse patriotism (like caring about who wins the Ashes) with jingoism (like which country we should snub, commit acts of terror on etc this week).

[Roark]

I love my country (Australia), but I think that patriotism has caused a lot of problems for the world. But anyway, as you guys have already discussed, there are different definitions of patriotism...

I really DO care who wins the Ashes, but I have a typically Aussie distrust of authority.

[JAG]

I also care about who wins the ashes - you Aussies are going down - but that really isn't patriotism. That is sport.

[Roark]

I'm confident in my aging team's abilities.

We just have to make sure that Harmison and Vaughan are somehow "injured" before the series...

[Papewaio]

I also care about who wins the ashes - you Aussies are going down - but that really isn't patriotism. That is sport.

You seem to care (love) about your countries success at cricket.

pa·tri·ot·ism
n.
Love of and devotion to one's country.

vs

par-rot-ism
v.
To repeat or imitate your countries leaders, especially without understanding.

[Lemur]

Just curious -- when you sing "God Save the Queen," do you also sing that weird second verse with the whole "frustrate their politics / confound their knavish tricks" bit? Or do you just sing the first verse and call it a patriotic day?

[Ice]

I have an American flag pinned on my wall above my desktop, that sums it up.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Just curious -- when you sing "God Save the Queen," do you also sing that weird second verse with the whole "frustrate their politics / confound their knavish tricks" bit? Or do you just sing the first verse and call it a patriotic day?

I usually do, but not this time because they only sang one verse of the manx national anthem....oh yeah, to those who are flaming me, i only sang my national anthem on that particular day cos i was feeling particulaly anti-foreign and pro-britannia! I have nothing against the isle of man, in fact i love it here (we have palm trees and cats) and i'm always looking out for a mod that could include Mann somehow. Don't think that i was singing my anthem to make a statement of any political kind...

[JAG]

i only sang my national anthem on that particular day cos i was feeling particulaly anti-foreign and pro-britannia!

QED

[Al Khalifah]

Fiercly patriotic. To the point where I would exercise my legal right to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow from the top of York tower. He he.

I'm patriotic but that doesn't mean I don't want immigrants coming to my country and polluting it. On the contrary, immigrants are good because they strengthen my country with fresh ideas and improving competition, as well as increasing the total production capacity. Anyone is welcome to come and live in Britain as long as they see themselves and British and respect our culture and way of life and have something to offer the country.

The EU on the other hand is bad. It stiffles creativity and decreases competition. It also destroys our national identity.

[Ironside]

And European countries don't draft because their citizens won't sign up. They do it to keep an egalitarian air to their military, every man's duty. It also keeps 18-22 year old men from screwing up their lives by getting too much freedom without enough brainpower to use it properly.

The original purpose was more because this countries lived close to a big militaristic state that already had occupeid large parts of Europe.

I'm going to bet that a draft sounds quite reasonable for the US if China decided to relocate thier population to Mexico, while having an standing army of (atleast) 15-20 million well equipped men close to the US border

Don is correct on the current reasons used for keeping it now though.

[King Henry V]

I'm patriotic in an expat way, praise the glory of England to everyone in Switzerland, bemoan how everything is so badly organised when I'm in England.

[bmolsson]

Patriotism is soooo outdated.... It's huge in Indonesia though....

[Duke Malcolm]

Fiercly patriotic. To the point where I would exercise my legal right to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow from the top of York tower. He he.

That's Nationalism, not Patriotism.

[Al Khalifah]

Probably murder too.

[Franconicus]

In my country there is no patriotism, not the good and not the bad one.
What is the bad one? Well, if you need your country to be proud. If you thinks your someway special because you are ... . If you have flags, and pictures everywhere. If you believe God is on your side because your are born in the right country. If you get upset if somebody burns a flag.
What is good one? If you take care about your countrymen. If you support the community. If you creaty jobs. If you help the weak.