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Thread: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Article Launched: 06/22/2005 01:00:00 AM

    al knight
    Change U.S. law on anchor babies
    By Al Knight

    There's nothing quite as important as timing in politics. A fact that might go unnoticed for years can, at the right moment, help change the direction of national policy.

    Consider the issue of anchor babies and what, if anything, should be done about them. Anchor babies, for those not yet familiar with the term, is the description given to babies of illegal immigrants who are delivered in the United States. These babies, under current interpretation of U.S. law, automatically become U.S. citizens and most qualify immediately for a variety of benefits, including Medicaid. Over time, they can open the door to citizenship to other family members.

    Last week, there was a flurry of national news stories announcing the current estimate that 300,000 such babies are born each year in this country.

    There are, of course, pro-immigration groups whose members wouldn't blink, let alone protest, if the number was 10 times that high. Most people, however, would find the number somewhat shocking. Indeed, the news stories set off a new flurry of debate over whether the existing provisions relating to what is called birthright citizenship can or should be changed.

    There is a special intensity in this discussion in some states - including California, Texas and Florida - with high anchor baby populations. But the issue is also being noticed in places like Georgia, where the number of anchor babies doubled from 5,133 in 2000 to 11,180 in 2002. Several years ago in Colorado, the number of such births was estimated at more than 6,000.

    A measure pending in Congress would change the Constitution to deny citizenship rights to babies born to illegal immigrants. The proposed amendment is currently given little or no chance of passage but it certainly helps to focus attention on the nature of the problem.

    More than a dozen years ago, Peter Schuck and Rogers Smith put it this way in their article "Consensual Citizenship," in the magazine Chronicles: "The present guarantee under American law of automatic birthright citizenship to the children of illegal aliens can operate ... as one more incentive to illegal migration and violation by nonimmigrant aliens already here. When this attraction is combined with the powerful lure of expanded entitlements conferred upon citizen children and their families by the modern welfare state, the total incentive effect of birthright citizenship may well become significant."

    That passage was written


    in 1992 when the number of such births was estimated at less than 150,000 per year. Since then, the number has more than doubled.

    The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."

    At the time the amendment was approved, the author of the clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard, said the phrase relating to jurisdiction meant, "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners ... ."

    In subsequent years, the courts invalidated the assurances of Howard; at this stage, an amendment to the Constitution seems the only means available to change the law.

    In some places in California, births to illegal immigrants make up 70 percent of the total deliveries. Overall statewide, they constitute 25 percent to 33 percent.

    Not so long ago in Ireland, there was a policy of granting residency and possible citizenship to anyone who had a baby there. In Dublin hospitals, births to foreigners made up 25 percent of the total. That fact forced a change in Ireland's constitution in 2004. It now reads:

    "Notwithstanding any other provision, a person born on the island of Ireland who does not have at the time of birth of that person at least one parent who is an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen is not entitled to Irish citizenship or nationality unless provided by law."

    Change a couple of words, and it is a safe bet that that amendment would receive a high level of popular support in the United States.

    A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country. But then, a few years ago, no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either.

    Al Knight of Fairplay is a former member of The Post's editorial-page staff. His columns appear on Wednesday.
    Let me re quote

    Last week, there was a flurry of national news stories announcing the current estimate that 300,000 such babies are born each year in this country
    But the issue is also being noticed in places like Georgia, where the number of anchor babies doubled from 5,133 in 2000 to 11,180 in 2002.
    In some places in California, births to illegal immigrants make up 70 percent of the total deliveries. Overall statewide, they constitute 25 percent to 33 percent.
    Theres a move in congress to change this law. Why should we give further incentive for people to disobey the law?
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Bruce Lee
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Bruce Lee
    Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?
    Who cares their both dead. Neither did anytrhing great for america. Even if some become the best citizens we ever had it doesnt make whats going on now right. How many other nations have this type of law?
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    Slapshooter Senior Member el_slapper's Avatar
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    Default Re : Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    France. Whoever born in France and raised up in France may be granted citizenship as long as they demand it between the ages of 18 and 20(or 16 and 20, I don't remember the details). Though it does not help their family getting legal.

    In fact, here in France, illegal immigrants have one single lone right : their children are allowed in schools. It is even mandatory for them, in fact, be they legals or illegals - they shall go to republica's school. And their children are allowed to stay, & may ask for citizenship.


    Now tell me : why a country fully built on immigration (don't tell me amerindians really mattered in USA's history) would suddenly be so harsh? I mean, the guy born in a location, he's from here! You want to send him back home? He IS at home!!!

    We have strictly the same debate over here. My position is : the trespasser, well, if he's caught, bad luck for him. The child born here, OTOH, is from here. As much as I am. Whatever its parents. He now is part of this soil. Like me. Its town is Montreuil or Sarcelles, not Ouagadougou or Bamako.

    Now I will tell the tale of Rio Antonio Mavuba. 20 years ago, as Angola was torn in a violent civil war, refugees did flee through a ship. The little Rio was born in this ship. Its parents, as all people aboard, were looking for a better life, in a peaceful and welcoming country. They did navigate through the oceans until they did find a safe haven. Today, Rio Antonio Mavuba is a sucessful professional sports player, recently naturalized and proudly carrying the flag of its new country. This DOES sound as an american dream, no? But Rio is now french, soccer/football player in Bordeaux & member of the national team.

    Is that really what you want? erasing the american dream? USA are a dream for many people in this planet - it is a huge strength for your country. Stories of successful immigrants have made the american dream true for countless people. This is USA's first strength. And you want to sit up upon it????? Me fails to understand.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Is that really what you want? erasing the american dream?
    The American dream isnt running accross the border to plop your kid on US soil so as to be an American. If I rob a bank should my kid be able to enjoy the spoils? Rewarding people for breaking the law by making their children US citizens is ludicrous.
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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.
    Why did your parents visit the US before you were born?
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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Why did your parents visit the US before you were born?
    Wow, you're giving me a lot of credit there G, by assuming I even know who my parents are...

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    I think Bush would be wise to push changing this law in order to satisfy his Christian base. Since they believe life begins at conception, the law should be changed so that as long as a couple can prove they fornicated on U.S. soil, their child gets U.S. citizenship no matter where he or she is born.

    Nice way to get dubble citizenship or else this could happen:

    Goverment person: Were did you fornicate, when you got pregnant?
    Mother wondering about the wierd question: Well uhhmm, it was on that wonderful vacation in the US. Right honey?
    Father: Right.
    GP: I'm sorry to inform you that you're under arrest for getting illegal immigrants into the country. Your child will be deported to the US with the next airplane.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    There's a LOT of things that need to get fixed on our immigration policy. As it stands right now, it's a small miracle Al Queda hasn't set up a training base someplace in Nevada (assuming they haven't). I'll have to think about this one particular nuance before I say anything on it though G.
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    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    I think it is time to change the "law of soil". It probably made more since in the 1700's, but now it is a very stupid law.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurmania
    Wouldn't Brandon Lee be the appropriate example in this case?
    No Bruce Lee was born in the US while his father was doing an Opera tour.

    Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco, California to a Chinese father, Lee Hoi-Chuen (李海泉), and Chinese-German mother Grace Lee(何金棠). Because of his father's fame as a Chinese opera actor Lee had the opportunity to appear in several Chinese movies as a child. He also studied the Wing Chun style of Kung Fu. And at a young age he quickly picked up the dialects/ languages of English, Cantonese, Mandarin and Japanese.

    In 1959, Lee went to Seattle to complete his high school education. He received his diploma from Edison Technical School and went on to enroll in the University of Washington as a philosophy major. It was at the UW that he would meet his wife Linda Emery.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    No Bruce Lee was born in the US while his father was doing an Opera tour.
    If your here legaly then your child should recieve citizenship if wanted. Nut illegals are another matter. If I break into your home while your gone and my wife or GF gives birth to our baby there can we stay and are your rersponsible to support our child?
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    That opens a whole can of worms by making a child responsible for the crimes of their parents.

    Verse 1
    Hi my name is Snoopy Puffy Puppy and I am a six year old child.
    I didn't stop my father from holding up the local liquor store,
    or stop my mum being a crack *insert rhyming word here*.
    So now I am going to do ten to twenty because I am responsible for my parents crimes.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    That opens a whole can of worms by making a child responsible for the crimes of their parents.
    How we are not punishing the child. If thats so then we are punishing every child born in the world that we dont make a US citizen. Again how many other countries have this law. I doubt you wil find many. Again you dont seem to grasp these people are not here legaly. Its a loophole that should be closed. If your here legaly for any reason and have a child here it should be up to you if you wish to claim US citizenship for the child. If your here illegaly neither you nor the child should be granted citizenship but deported back to the country where you came from. Why even have immigration laws at this point.
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    If your here legaly then your child should recieve citizenship if wanted. Nut illegals are another matter. If I break into your home while your gone and my wife or GF gives birth to our baby there can we stay and are your rersponsible to support our child?
    Why blame the child for something the parents have done ??

    For being against abortions, I must say you are not very sensitive against protecting innocent childrens from ignorant parents.....

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Why blame the child for something the parents have done ??
    This is absurd. What am I blaming them for? Again is any child thats not granted US citizenship being blamed for the parents not moving here? Why should we reward the child for the parents being criminals?

    I must say you are not very sensitive against protecting innocent childrens from ignorant parents.
    Ignorant? Id say their pretty smart.
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    This is absurd. What am I blaming them for? Again is any child thats not granted US citizenship being blamed for the parents not moving here? Why should we reward the child for the parents being criminals?
    You want to rob the innocent child on it's right to become an Amercian citizen. What have the unborn children on illegal immigrants ever done to you?......

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    You want to rob the innocent child on it's right to become an Amercian citizen.
    How does it have the RIGHT to be an American citizen? Im not robbing it of anything. Its parents are trying to abuse the law. You want to reward them for it. Again name another country where this is possible. Is it in yours?
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    How does it have the RIGHT to be an American citizen? Im not robbing it of anything. Its parents are trying to abuse the law. You want to reward them for it. Again name another country where this is possible. Is it in yours?
    Even if the parents are abusing laws, you want to punish a innocent child for it. The law says that a child born on US soil is an Amercian citizen and you want to rob this right from the innocent child.

    I can't name any other country that have this, since there are only one great, free, democratic and superior nation. And you now want to reduce it to another piece of dirt filled of mediocracy...........

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Even if the parents are abusing laws, you want to punish a innocent child for it


    How am I punishing it by making it return with its parents to the country to which they are citizens. This is crazy.

    The law says that a child born on US soil is an Amercian citizen and you want to rob this right from the innocent child.
    No I want to change the law. Thats what we do in democracies when we dont like them. Now your trying to make me out to be the criminal here. Amazing logic.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    For Australia:

    Citizenship by birth
    Most people born in Australia before 26 January 1949 became Australian citizens on that day. Between that date and 19 August 1986, people born in Australia automatically became Australian citizens unless one of their parents was a foreign diplomatic or consular official.

    Since 20 August 1986, citizenship is acquired if, at the time of the person's birth in Australia, at least one parent is either an Australian citizen or a permanent resident of Australia.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    So the children that are citizens here would not be granted it there. Like I thought. Im still willing to let those here on visa or vacation get citizenship. Its only criminals I dont want rewarded.
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    Member Member Kanamori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    ...Bmolsson, be kind man ...

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    ...Bmolsson, be kind man .
    Id settle for rational
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    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    You could just drop the limitations on Latin immigrants, they never worked anyway
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    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Having seen the mess of Switzerland, I'd suggest you let people born in American become citizens. Last thing you want is a new underclass of citizenless people who have always lived in America etc.

  29. #29
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Having seen the mess of Switzerland, I'd suggest you let people born in American become citizens. Last thing you want is a new underclass of citizenless people who have always lived in America etc.
    Once more I hae no problem with letting people who are here legally and have a child claim citizenship here. But if they snuck in they and their brood should be deported. I dont know of any other country that allows this.
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    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change U.S. law on anchor babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Once more I hae no problem with letting people who are here legally and have a child claim citizenship here. But if they snuck in they and their brood should be deported. I dont know of any other country that allows this.
    Well I think the issue in Switzerland is that the immigrants (predominately Albanian I think) were invited in, not given citizenship, then had kids, who weren't citizens either, and are now completely stuck because all they speak is Swiss German and all they have is an Albanian passport (which is pretty worthless anyway).

    I don't see the problem with kids of illegal immigrants getting citizenship. What connection do they have to their parents' country? If they were born in America, they should be American. Born in Britain, British. It's not going to help integration if you develop an underclass of people who have lived in America their whole lives, speak English only, and then can't go back to their parents' country anyway. What do you do with them? Dump them in no-mans land between borders?

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