Progress against terror

[Ser Clegane]

What about me?

Oops ... I actually meant you ... don't know why I wrote Red Harvest - he did not even post in this thread.
I guess I should drink less coffee

I agree. But maybe that is the silver bullet. Make them loose interest in fighting us.

Definitely the best way - less bloody for sure. In the case AQ that would probably mean making it more difficult for them to find willing new terrorists.

Not sure how this could be achieved - but I do not think that the total destruction of the AQ network would be an easy task either.

[The Stranger]

i think so, cuz i dont have that button

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well if AQ were to read this poll Im sure it would warm the cockles of their hearts to see how miserably you all think we are doing. No wonder were losing(not my position) with beliefs like this.

This war wont be decided by military action any more than NAM was but by winning over the hearts and minds of the otherside. According to this poll the enemy is indeed winning this battle.

[Franconicus]

Yes, we should increase our faith, not our efforts. That will frighten AQ

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yes, we should increase our faith, not our efforts. That will frighten AQ

Telling your side your losing and the enemy their winning can only have a bad influence for your side. Showing the enemy that we have faith we will win will frighten the enemy more surely. How is it none of you seem to say that everytime they attack us like they did in London it creates more of us who want to destroy AQ? No only when we attack them it makes them stronger. It works both ways.

[Ser Clegane]

Telling your side your losing and the enemy their winning can only have a bad influence for your side. Showing the enemy that we have faith we will win will frighten the enemy more surely. How is it none of you seem to say that everytime they attack us like they did in London it creates more of us who want to destroy AQ? No only when we attack them it makes them stronger. It works both ways.

Actually I do not think that this poll was supposed to be a question of "faith" - but that it was asking for a realistic appraisal of the situation.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Actually I do not think that this poll was supposed to be a question of "faith" - but that it was asking for a realistic appraisal of the situation.

I ddnt bring up faith. Im just saying if AQ read this it certainly would encourage them. I dont think anyone here is capable of making an accurate assesment on this matter. Not even close to be being able to.

[Ser Clegane]

I ddnt bring up faith. Im just saying if AQ read this it certainly would encourage them. I dont think anyone here is capable of making an accurate assesment on this matter. Not even close to be being able to.

So would you say that the ones who say we are winning are also doing the cause a disservice because they a spreading a false sense of security?

[Franconicus]

Why? This is what we are talking about all the time. You keep on complaining that lefties position is weakening the fight we complain that the US government is doing the wrong thinks. If we cannot assess the situation at all what are we talking about?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So would you say that the ones who say we are winning are also doing the cause a disservice because they a spreading a false sense of security?

No because non of us are claiming that we are secure.

If we cannot assess the situation at all what are we talking about?

WE can try but we are woefully uniformed as to whats really going on. I doubt even the government knows for sure. If you asked people in 1942 on the allied side how the war as going the answer wouldnt be pretty. Does that mean we should have quit? Should we have told the Germans and Japs they were beating the snot out of us and asked the governent to stop?

[JimBob]

WE can try but we are woefully uniformed as to whats really going on. I doubt even the government knows for sure. If you asked people in 1942 on the allied side how the war as going the answer wouldnt be pretty. Does that mean we should have quit? Should we have told the Germans and Japs they were beating the snot out of us and asked the governent to stop?

Who said quit? All I hear is "Do it better damnit." As to our assesments they are as accurate as possible, because I know for a fact that after maybe a day a reaserch and a day of work any one of you could build a bomb and set it off. And the people who are spreading the message to do this remain at large, if they had been caught it would be everywhere.

[Navaros]

i say there is no progress because every time the USA kills some Muslims, then there are other Muslims to take their place. there are a whole heckuva lot of Muslims in the world who believe in the Koran with all their hearts

so unless the USA is gonna become determined to kill all of them, i do not think they will ever run out of Muslims to fight

hence "progress" can not really be made. you destroy some insurgent camps, big deal. other ones will sprout up elsewhere to replace them.

[Red Harvest]

I'm not seeing the level of progress I expected. We haven't caught the big fish. The way the Iraq campaign was justified, timed, and the post war management of it have not helped. I don't think Iraq has really increased terrorism, rather shifted the focal/rally point for the terrorists. There are some encouraging signs in a few places such as Palestine and Lebanon, but less in others. Afghanistan was moved to the back burner on "simmer" and I think we will severely regret that later. Pakistan is a mess, the tribes are harboring many of the worst terrorists. Spain did exactly what terrorists wanted as a result of the Madrid bombing. (Yes, the party in power was stupid and wrong to try to blame the attack on Basque separatists and I don't blame Spain for ejecting them--what concerned me was effectively giving the terrorists what they wanted as a result.)

To me the measurement of progress against terrorism comes down to not only how many/how severe the attacks are, but more importantly to the level of resolve by various nations and groups to combat it and GIVE IT NO REFUGE. While there has been a shift in the Islamic world in attitude, there is still a long way to go. Also, some elements in Europe seem too fractious on the issue, too apologetic for the terrorists.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

To me the measurement of progress against terrorism comes down to not only how many/how severe the attacks are, but more importantly to the level of resolve by various nations and groups to combat it and GIVE IT NO REFUGE. While there has been a shift in the Islamic world in attitude, there is still a long way to go. Also, some elements in Europe seem too fractious on the issue, too apologetic for the terrorists.

Somtimes you do sound like a real conservative I whole heartally agree with you here. You may be left of me but at least in your case I have no doubt that you are a patriotic American.

[Don Corleone]

See Red, we do agree on some things.

Maybe I'll have to move your index up to 30.

[CBR]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...l_050714220538

Osama bin Laden is losing public confidence in several key Islamic countries, while growing numbers of Muslims are sharing Western concerns over extremism, a new survey found.

At least that sounds good.


CBR

[Kagemusha]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...l_050714220538



At least that sounds good.


CBR

Those are good news.

[Ice]

Ending the rule of Saddam have made more people die every day thanks to increased terrorism in Iraq.

I can`t really see that as a too positive happenng in this perspective; were there really any terrorists with base in Iraq before the war?

As to the poll I think you missed at least one option, I don`t think we can say how the war`s going for sure. I really don`t know.

To be honest... I don't Saddam supported terrorists in his country. I highly doubt he would want those insane people running around in his countrying blowing up his country/giving foriegn countries an incentive to invade.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Osama bin Laden is losing public confidence in several key Islamic countries, while growing numbers of Muslims are sharing Western concerns over extremism, a new survey found.

Dosent that mean we are making progress? And significant progress at that it seems. This is the only way we can beat him. I dont think those guys in Iraq are scoring many points killing Iraqis.

[Franconicus]

No because non of us are claiming that we are secure.



WE can try but we are woefully uniformed as to whats really going on. I doubt even the government knows for sure. If you asked people in 1942 on the allied side how the war as going the answer wouldnt be pretty. Does that mean we should have quit? Should we have told the Germans and Japs they were beating the snot out of us and asked the governent to stop?

Gawain,
If you check the possible answers of this thread again, please notice that there is no 'we are loosing this fight'. This is not an option to me. Not even thinkable.
But I do not agree that we will perform better by just closing our eyes and follow our leaders. We should calmly analyse the situation and think what we can do better.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain,
If you check the possible answers of this thread again, please notice that there is no 'we are loosing this fight'. This is not an option to me. Not even thinkable.,

Well then you missed another one.

We should calmly analyse the situation and think what we can do better.

Really? Thanks for the information.

[Colovion]

If progress means creating a safer world then...

No.

Progress would be the US realizing how ridiculous the present borders of Iraq are and dividing it into regions around Baghdad, Mosul and Basra. We have silly Arnold Wilson to thank for the unification of those three provinces. All three regions too disparate in geography and ethnically and yet, in colonial terms, the Rivers and Oil Fields created a reason to combine them for administration purposes. Then again, borders in the Middle East have a similar taste as those in the Balkans so doing away with them all together might be a step forward.