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Thread: I hope Bush is just BSing

  1. #1
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default I hope Bush is just BSing

    Are these guys kidding?

    Dems, GOP Clamor for Input on Court Pick


    Thursday July 7, 2005 9:01 PM

    AP Photo VASA103

    By DAVID ESPO

    AP Special Correspondent

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrats clamor for consultation with President Bush before he fills a vacancy on the Supreme Court, while Republicans call for a new justice who will interpret the Constitution rather than read new rights into it.

    Strictly speaking, neither side will be satisfied if that's all they get.

    Not the conservatives who drew two rebukes from Bush this week for their criticism of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, a potential choice who would become the first Hispanic justice. His offense, from their point of vs to the Capitol to pay a courtesy call on Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada even before O'Connor announced her plans.

    The president called Reid and Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, the day O'Connor announced her retirement. White House Chief of Staff Andy Card has since called several Senate Democrats.

    But phone calls and a bipartisan meeting at the White House aren't going to cut it with the Democrats.

    ``I stand ready to work with President Bush to help him select a nominee to the Supreme Court who can unite Americans,'' Leahy declared in mid-June, amid speculation that Chief Justice William Rehnquist would retire.

    ``To be meaningful, consultation should include who the president is really considering so we can give responsive and useful advice,'' said Massachusetts Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, one of the Democrats on Card's call list.

    ``As to whether or not there's a knockdown, dragout fight on this is up to the president,'' Reid said in Reno on Friday.

    Liberal groups that customarily criticize Bush now try coaxing.

    ``Our effort is aimed at letting the White House know that there are millions and millions and millions of people who want him to use a process that produces a consensus nominee in the mold of Sandra Day O'Connor,'' said Nancy Zirkin of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

    ``She is conservative ... at least is mindful of landmark decisions and settled law.''

    Settled law, that is, that recognizes the right to an abortion, upholds affirmative action, maintains civil rights and generally preserves the status quo in other controversial areas where O'Connor often held the swing vote on a divided court.

    That may the best that Democratic senators and their allies can hope for.

    But leaving settled law alone is hardly what abortion opponents and other conservatives outside the Senate have in mind.

    ``The Republican base, which worked hard to elect President Bush twice, does not think the Supreme Court should be stuck in the mentality of the 1960s,'' said Wendy Long, counsel to the conservative Judicial Confirmation Network.

    In a statement, she cited a ``sorry line of judicial rulings'' that includes ``prohibiting school prayer, allowing the burning of the American flag, mandating same-sex marriage, protecting virtual child pornography on the Internet, upholding discriminatory racial preferences, taking the words 'under God' out of the Pledge of Allegiance, striking down states modest restrictions on late-term abortions.''

    Abortion, an issue that divides the country politically like no other, is a particular point of contention.

    ``It is critical that President Bush make it clear to the American public that nominating someone who will 'faithfully interpret the Constitution' means nominating a person who will oppose the Roe v. Wade decision, a decision which was clearly judicial activism at its worst,'' said Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney of the Christian Defense Coalition.

    The official advice to Republican senators is to avoid all such talk.

    ``America needs judges who will apply the law as written, not make the law to advance a personal political agenda,'' reads a set of talking points distributed to GOP aides within hours of O'Connor's announcement.

    It adds: ``Nobody should be playing politics with the justice system.''
    They lost get over it. But Bush is Mr nice guy

    Posted on Tue, Jul. 12, 2005

    Bush solicits Supreme Court advice

    DEB RIECHMANN

    Associated Press

    WASHINGTON - Aiming to demonstrate an openness to all views, President Bush sought the advice of Democratic as well as Republican senators on Tuesday about whom to pick to fill a Supreme Court vacancy. He also got a little unsolicited advice from his wife.

    Over breakfast at the White House, two key lawmakers urged Bush to consider nominating someone other than a judge. Democrats floated the names of three Hispanic judges, but advocates on both the right and left said they might be too moderate for the president's liking.

    Bush even heard - all the way from South Africa - from Laura Bush, who said she'd like to see him replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor with a woman.

    Through it all, Bush gave no clues about whom he might be considering.

    "Closer than I was yesterday" was all he would say about how near he was to making his first pick for the nation's high court.

    His White House meeting was attended by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn; Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.; Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee; and Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, ranking Democrat on the committee. Vice President Dick Cheney and White House Chief of Staff Andy Card also attended.

    Reid told Bush he wanted the president to share the names of his candidates so senators could evaluate them.

    The Democrat said he didn't want to "wake up in the morning and see a name in the paper." The president's process of consultation should continue, he said.

    "If the president sends us a consensus nominee, the Senate will confirm them easily," Reid said. "If he sends us a divisive nominee, we will use all procedural tools at our disposal to protect the American people."

    The meeting was intended to reinforce White House contentions that Bush was consulting widely in filling the first Supreme Court vacancy in 11 years. Democrats have complained bitterly for years that Bush has ignored their views on lower-court judicial nominations. The White House said it has solicited the views of more than 60 senators.

    "Senator Frist came to the Senate floor and said it is unprecedented what the president has done," Reid said about the consultation. "That is a bunch of flimflam," he said, adding that presidents have often consulted with leading senators about Supreme Court nominees.

    Officials said Reid signaled that several of the contenders supported by conservatives could trigger a confirmation battle. The Nevada Democrat did not mention names, but among those backed by conservatives are federal appellate judges J. Michael Luttig, Michael McConnell, John Roberts Jr., Samuel Alito and J. Harvie Wilkinson III.

    Several officials familiar with the hour-long meeting said Democrats suggested Judge Sonia Sotomayor of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Judge Ed Prado of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and U.S. District Court Judge Ricardo Hinojosa, all Hispanics.

    "The question is how seriously will the president take these or any other names suggested, and we don't know the answer to that," said Elliott Mincberg, legal director of the liberal advocacy group, The People for the American Way. Wendy Long, counsel for the conservative Judicial Confirmation Network, said the three Hispanic judges' judicial philosophy might not "meet the president's bedrock criterion of faithfulness to the Constitution."

    Conservative groups also are leery of another Hispanic said to be a top contender, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, who is close to Bush but whose views on abortion and affirmative action have raised questions among them. Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., said he was trying to arrange a meeting with Gonzales this week to explore his judicial philosophy.

    Specter and Leahy said they told Bush he should consider naming someone who has not worn a judicial robe. Chief Justice William Rehnquist, for example, was a Justice Department official when he was selected.

    "If they had a little more practical experience and didn't work so much within the footnotes and the semicolons, you might have a little different perspective, and I'd like to see that added to the court," Specter said."

    Leahy, who gave a jar of Vermont maple syrup as a belated birthday gift to Bush, who turned 59 on July 6, agreed.

    "I've talked, as each of us has, with a number of the current justices," Leahy said. "I know they see a number of benefits that could come to having somebody from outside the judicial monastery." Despite the consultations, the White House indicated the only thing that mattered was what the president thought.

    "People are welcome to express their views ... but it's the president's constitutional responsibility to make that selection," spokesman Scott McClellan said. "And I don't think any individual should have veto power over that selection process."

    In contrast to last week, little was said about rumors that Rehnquist, who is battling cancer, would step down, too
    He better not let his base down or it will be Madame Hilary in 2008.
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  2. #2
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Bush even heard - all the way from South Africa - from Laura Bush, who said she'd like to see him replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor with a woman.
    Janice Rodgers Brown anyone?
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Janice Rodgers Brown anyone?
    My thoughts exactly. I say stick it to them now.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    I say stick it to them now.
    Oh, Gawain, that's what you always say!

  5. #5
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Oh, Gawain, that's what you always say!
    And I never tire of it But we never do.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Check out my hero Mark Levin on this video

    LINK
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 07-14-2005 at 01:24.
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Hrm...I agree with Gawain...but is that anything new?

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    I love it. Bush finally begins making some conciliatory gestures that might help unite a deeply divided country, and his own base gets angry at him.

    Remember conservatives: the narrow margin Bush was reelected by does not even come close to being called a mandate. This is not the time for him to try to go overdrawn on his thin political capital account. The cheque would most likely bounce...
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Bush is a total hypocrite

    people should not say Bush is religious, because he is not. Bush cares nothing for doing God's will. like any other politician, Bush simply says what he thinks people want to hear

    if Bush was a moral man and not a hypocrite, he would have outlawed the holocaust known as "abortion" in his first term

    this latest act of hypocrisy from him just further cements that he is an evil man and a liar.

    but it comes as no surprise to me.

    conservative Americans might as well vote for democrats since they're pretty much the same thing as republicans these days

  10. #10
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by Navaros
    if Bush was a moral man and not a hypocrite, he would have outlawed the holocaust known as "abortion" in his first term
    Erm... As much as I hate to defend W, I think you are a bit confused, Nav. It's President Bush, not Ayatollah Bush or King Bush. Presidents can't really outlaw anything on their own.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    I love it. Bush finally begins making some conciliatory gestures that might help unite a deeply divided country, and his own base gets angry at him.

    Remember conservatives: the narrow margin Bush was reelected by does not even come close to being called a mandate. This is not the time for him to try to go overdrawn on his thin political capital account. The cheque would most likely bounce...
    Democratic Mandate: we almost got 50% of the vote.
    Republican Mandate: you didn't get 95% of the vote, so the country is deeply divided.

    And don't get so high & mighty Goofy. If Kerry had won & put a conservative judge up, you'd be going ballistic.

    Navaros, Bush HAS passed laws outlawing 3rd trimester abortions and had them struck down by the court system. As long as the president is just the errand boy for SCOTUS, and Congress is just their rubber stamp, we live in an aristrocracy. That's what this fight is all about.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  12. #12

    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    i think the dubya is gonna lead the dems on, get them all moist and excited about having input into a sc candidate, than have the senate sand bag the dem hopeful in committee, never allowing them have an up or down vote... then he'll say nayaayayayayayyaa

    it would be entertaining if that was the case anyway...

  13. #13

    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    well, i have seen Bush make comments like "America is not ready to ban abortion, therefore I won't do it"

    excuse me? "not ready" to end a holocaust? what the [censored] kind of crock is that?!

    comments like that, and now Bush's refusal to appoint a judge who does not agree with murdering babies, certainly show that Bush is not at all pro-life as he so often says to pander to the moral voters who vote for him based on that

    bottom line is that is Bush really cared about stopping the butchering of America's children, then he would have found a way to get the result of ending the holocaust. it would have been his #1 priority from day one of his first term, and he'd never have gave up until the result was in place. and that result could have been in place long ago

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    How is abortion an offering to God?


    *Holocost, strictly translated, means "Offering to God"*

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Contrary to popular opinion, President Bush has tried to be a consensus leader since he was elected.

    He has strong conservative beliefs, but what far right wing agenda has he pushed?

    He'll nominate a good candidate over a conservative or liberal ideologue.

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    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Contrary to popular opinion, President Bush has tried to be a consensus leader since he was elected.

    He has strong conservative beliefs, but what far right wing agenda has he pushed?

    He'll nominate a good candidate over a conservative or liberal ideologue.
    My impression has always been he's just enjoying being sober briefly and doing what his family and co. want him to do.

    Despite all the fixing reports and exposing CIA agents and being even less accepting of ecological issues than his father, I quite like him. He's been better than Gore or Kerry at any rate.

    As long as he puts in a good candidate, rather than some pyschopathic borderline fundalmentalist, it should be ok. I find it hard to believe you can become a top judge without at least some ability. But then again I'm not American, so you never know.

  17. #17
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    I hear hes going to nominate someone who has never been a judge. In fact he might even nominate Karl Rove.
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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Democratic Mandate: we almost got 50% of the vote.
    Republican Mandate: you didn't get 95% of the vote, so the country is deeply divided.

    And don't get so high & mighty Goofy. If Kerry had won & put a conservative judge up, you'd be going ballistic.
    Let me assure you, I would certainly not go ballistic. While I may enjoy a spirited debate about the subtleties of American politics in an online forum, Bush's appointments to the SC really have no impact on me since I don't live there.

    At any rate I wasn't trying to come off high and mighty, I was simply offering a counterpoint to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    He better not let his base down or it will be Madame Hilary in 2008.
    I believe that it would be just as harmful to Republican reelection hopes in 2008 for Bush to bully through a bunch of hard line conservative appointments, for two reasons:

    1) It would probably light a fire under a very lethargic and boring Democratic Party and give them a boost;

    and

    2) I believe that there were a lot of social moderates who held their noses and voted Republican last time because they thought Bush was a better "war President" and that the Republicans were harder on terrorism than the Democrats would be. If a hardline conservative social agenda is pursued, the Republicans will definitely lose those votes next time around. And since the margin was pretty slim, they don't really have a lot of wiggle room.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  19. #19
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    1) It would probably light a fire under a very lethargic and boring Democratic Party and give them a boost;
    I dont think you get it. Most people dont like the current court and want a change. Thats the number one reason I believe most people voted for Bush. It was almost tempting enough to make even me vote for him. But living in NY I knew my vote didnt matter. Thats another thing some people miss is that in a state where the outcome is a forgone conlusion many who are on the supposed losing side either dont vote or vote for a third party candidate. Thats another reason the popular vote really isnt an indicator of what the people want. Now if we did go by popular vote it might very well increase voter turnout as every vote would count.

    I believe that there were a lot of social moderates who held their noses and voted Republican last time because they thought Bush was a better "war President" and that the Republicans were harder on terrorism than the Democrats would be. If a hardline conservative social agenda is pursued, the Republicans will definitely lose those votes next time around. And since the margin was pretty slim, they don't really have a lot of wiggle room.
    Nah most of us held our noses over his spending habits and the borders. Again nominating these judges were what he really was elected to do by his base and most who voted for him. Most Americans see SCOTUS as not representing the people and being a law unti themselves. The only way to get consistant rulings from them is to go strictly by the constitution. Thas what their supposed to do no matter what their political ideology. If he doesnt appoint the right judges there will be no wiggle room. The republican party will bite the dust.
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  20. #20
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hope Bush is just BSing

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Erm... As much as I hate to defend W, I think you are a bit confused, Nav. It's President Bush, not Ayatollah Bush or King Bush. Presidents can't really outlaw anything on their own.
    Its okay Goofball; Navaros has no clue about what he is talking about concerning American Politics. The President can not outlaw any old thing he wants, especially when it runs counter to what the other two branches of government have already published. It would get overturned by a Supreme Court decision saying that it was unconstitutional, or overridden by a 2/3 votes of the United States Congress.

    Yep live in a dictorship might have it priveledges like outlawing any thing you wish - but in a democracy you have to take the good with the bad laws that are voted in by the representives of the majority.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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