Arrows

[Eaglefirst]

I have heard that EB is downgrading the power of arrows. I have heard over and over that "arrows are overpowered". I am not an expert at warfare of this period so I do not know to what extent the effectiveness of arrows was. Using the 1.2 patch I decided to try testing the effectiveness of arrows. I fired Roman Archers against Libyan Spearman and recorded the causalities. The computer had the Libyan's marching forward at me also. Here is the kill per Salvo. First Salvo 1 Kill - Second Salvo 1 Kill - Third Salvo 0 Kill - Fourth Salvo 3 Kills (This was fired at near point blank range). Now killing 1 per salvo at a forward facing opponent does not seem to be to powerful. Next I tried Horse Archers firing on Hastati the results First Salvo 1 kill – Second Salvo 0 Kill – Third Salvo 2 Kill – Fourth Salvo 1 Kill. I tried Persian Cavalry on Hastati and got First Salvo 3 Kills – Second Salvo 2 Kills – Third Salvo 5 Kills – Fourth Salvo 4 Kills – Fifth Salvo - 4 Kills. Those numbers seem to be high but considering that Persian Cavalry are the “Elite Archery Units” of a army that is based on archery they seem to reasonable. Also consider that Hastati are fairly lightly armored. Next I tried Persian Cavalry against Roman Legionaries. The results were 1 Kill – 0 Kill – 2 Kill – 1 Kill – 0 Kill – 1 Kill. Now obviously firing behind the enemies and such would do more damage to the enemy since they cannot guard themselves with there shields but I have found playing as Parthia arrows work best by demoralizing an enemy. I was wondering where the overpowered bit comes from ? By the way awesome work on the mod and I actually stopped playing Vanilla since it seemed bland compared to EB.

[caesar44]

I agree with you , arrows were very important factor , and I too don't understand why one should reduce its killing ratio

[Ergion]

Hi. If you play in multiplayer you can see why the arrows are overpowered. In a realistic mod as EB is natural less powerful arrows.

[Danest]

Against lightly armored, tightly packed men, a huge hail of arrows ought to be devastating. Much higher than those stats. Against armored targets, well, that's another story. They're only overpowered if those kill rates are higher than they would be if it happened in real life. In real life, I'm pretty sure a hail of arrows would devastate that tightly packed group of low-armor guys. 120 arrows into a crowd, 4 hits? I doubt it. But as I understand it, EB has their mind made up. Ah well, if only the testudo formation was more useful in countering archers - but I never really got much use out of it.

[Steppe Merc]

I wasn't aware that we are downgrading arrows. We will be diffrentiating between different bows. For example, a composite bow used by a Sarmatian would be far superior to a self bow used by a Westerner.
And historical accuracy, not multiplayer, is our goal.

[Ergion]

I wasn't aware that we are downgrading arrows. We will be diffrentiating between different bows. For example, a composite bow used by a Sarmatian would be far superior to a self bow used by a Westerner.
And historical accuracy, not multiplayer, is our goal.

When i speak of multiplayer I speak of one of the best laboratory to see bugs and unbalanced units in battles. The multi players are high level players who knows how exploit to maximun that issues (abusing it sometimes). If we see the armies in multiplayer we usually see an huge numbers os archers and cavalry units, and for example none skirmishers units... This is very significant when I speak of vanilla version, no? This is not realistic and I´m not okay with this, but if you are in a competitive clan you must play with that sort of army. This can be corrected with some mods (for example MCM of Mordred where we can we armies much more realistic ) and I expect also with EB and his multiplayer patch . I know that multiplayer is not a primordial objetive, but can be a positive colateral effect.

[pezhetairoi]

Archers are overpowered in RTW. I can destroy a unit waiting to contest a breach in the wall with 2 Greek archer units alone. One salvo will take out 3-4 Hastati. Horse Archers can do even worse to the enemy if they aren't moving.

If there will be differentiation this time in bow power then this means at least that it will make some gameplay differences. But I hope that armour and shield defences are now made commensurate with the amount of blocking power they have for arrows. E.g. Quilted armour during the hundred years war was sufficient to block most arrows, and there are records of people seeing walking pincushions among the British army after a battle because the arrows were all stopped by their quilted armour. So I hope armour reflects that too.

[RandyKapp]

Sheild Size not armour is what decides resistance to archers i thought...

[Danest]

Fire 120 arrows into a dense crowd. Does everyone really think there would be only 3 hits (unless there's some pretty good shields and armor involved I guess)? If anything archers are underpowered. Besides, they're about as easy to pop as anything could be once you get close. I suspect EB would agree if I said nothing's underpowered or overpowered if it's historically accurate. Is there any way to really judge just how many kills would come from one salvo of arrows? I would be surprised if they recorded that kind of data back then.

[eadingas]

You're forgetting that not all arrow hits kill instantly. If you're hit by an arrow from a random salvo, chances are you'll only get slightly in the arm, or the arrow slides off the helmet, and you can still go on fighting. If you have even smallest shield, raising it against the shadow of arrows is already decent protection in most cases, depending on distance and power of the bowmen. etc. etc. The fighting army is not just a "crowd of people".