What makes a person a "true" christian ?

[kiwitt]

According to this Man, who headed a "Christian" party in NZ

As a teenager, Capill felt he was never good enough to be a Christian.

He said he came to realise Christianity was not about being a good person, "it's for people that know that they're bad people".

"A Christian is a person who knows that they don't have any hope and don't have any future and they need someone to stand in on their behalf and that, of course, is Jesus Christ."

I would have thought "Christians" should be role-models not bad people ?!?

NOTE: This man is a bad person

[Papewaio]

Church: A club for sinners to go to, to ask for forgiveness from someone whom is sinless.

[Roark]

I think this quote is simply saying that Christians should be aware of their faults/mistakes/sins. Repentance is integral to Christianity.

The Christian role-model is Jesus Christ, an allegedly perfect human. It's not that Christians necessarily make less mistakes than others, but they should seek to recognise and repent of their mistakes. They are flawed humans, like everyone else, but they aspire to more...

[Don Corleone]

He's talking about the moment of acceptance of God's grace. It's kind of inherent in that acceptance that you will attempt to sin no more. If your friend offers you $3K to pay off your credit card debts and you go to the casino with it and blow it, you don't really have a relationship.

To be a Christian is to believe that Christ is who He said He was, and to accept that He will forgive you for all your sins, no matter how abhorent they are. From that moment on, I cannot imagine if you made the 2 leaps I just mentioned that you would want to do anything other than emulate Christ as best as you possibly can. I come from a Catholic tradition, so I'd say you may not be able to earn your salvation, but sure as shit can back yourself right back out the door. My friends at the Methodist Church I attend would tell you if you continue to pursue evil (willfully disobeying the will of God) you never really had a relationship with Christ to begin with.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Jesus Christ is many things to many people with many different believes as to what makes a person a true christain. Of course everyone who believes they are a Christain believes they are a true Christain or at least the faith they follow is or they would leave it. I believe you can be a christain wthout even believing in Christ but in his word. I belive a true christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus. You dont need an organised religion for this.

[PanzerJaeger]

What makes a person a "true" christian ?

Accepting Jesus as your personal savior. Thats all, if I remember correctly.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Accepting Jesus as your personal savior. Thats all, if I remember correctly

Thats what most christain churches say. I think the Catholics are a bit more complicated than that. Again I would say that one who strictly follows the philosphy of Christ is a true Christain.

[Byzantine Prince]

The whole "true christian" is a concept of the imagination. I mean I'm sure Jesus never told his followers to start churchs or have crusades in his honour. I'm sure he just wanted people to believe in god a little more, and offered himself as proof that god cares about his people and that people should love eachother just like god loves them. It's a beautiful concept that is almost non-existent in todays christianity anyhow.

Seriously though when was the last time preachers in America taught people to help eachtother and to treat eachother the way they want to be treated in a major public way? All I hear is that they are against gay marriage and abortion, as if those are the biggest issues jesus ever talked about. In fact I doubt Jesus ever mentioned those. Gays were only bashed in the Bible a couple of times by St.Paul who said "anyone doing those despicaple acts with the same sex should be killed". There is lies the problem with modern christianity which is but a reinvention of what Paul, Thomas Aquinas, and Augustine thought god and jesus were all about.

[kiwitt]

Thanks Guys, That is how I saw it too.

This man above, seems to understand his "faith" better then he understood his "morals" that he was preaching.

I have tried many a time to understand Christianity. I attended bible study at school, went to Sunday school, did mid-week bible study, went to church. All to no avail. I really could not get past the fact it starts with the premise "Believe in God". However, I did understand if I wanted to be "saved", I needed to believe in Christ. And I was told in order to prove I believe in Christ, I need to tell other people how. With me not getting past the first premise, I couldn't go the next step. However, I did learn a lot about how to live a "moral" life.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I really could not get past the fact it starts with the premise "Believe in God".

Belief in god and Christianity are two different things. There are many people who belive theres a god but that dont believe Jesus is god. You can begin with a few million Muslims.

owever, I did understand if I wanted to be "saved", I needed to believe in Christ. And I was told in order to prove I believe in Christ, I need to tell other people how. With me not gettingpast the first premise, I couldn't go the next step.

Thats a recruting tool that most organised religions use. Its also what turns me off to all of them. They cant all be the only true god or church. I dont think Jesus if he is god would be so vain as to require you worship him. I mean my first concern with my kids is that they obey my rules and behave not that they worship the ground I walk upon.

[bmolsson]

Being a member of a Christian church......

[kiwitt]

Being a member of a Christian church......

Which one ? Any church. Sounds like I was rightly put off, Gawain.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The whole "true christian" is a concept of the imagination. I mean I'm sure Jesus never told his followers to start churchs or have crusades in his honour. I'm sure he just wanted people to believe in god a little more, and offered himself as proof that god cares about his people and that people should love eachother just like god loves them. It's a beautiful concept that is almost non-existent in todays christianity anyhow.

I cant believe I totally agree with a post by BP on this topic. Whats the org coming to?

[PanzerJaeger]

Seriously though when was the last time preachers in America taught people to help eachtother and to treat eachother the way they want to be treated in a major public way?

I havent been to church in a long time, but when I did go, there was a lot of that kind of talk. Almost every sunday was a verse from the new testament and how we could apply it to our own life.

All I hear is that they are against gay marriage and abortion, as if those are the biggest issues jesus ever talked about.

Of course you hear people who make controversial statements. Christians talking about the teachings of Christ dont make the news..

There is lies the problem with modern christianity which is but a reinvention of what Paul, Thomas Aquinas, and Augustine thought god and jesus were all about.

You need to apply your opinion of Islam to your opinion of Christianity.

Stop getting your information about Christianity from the news.(Only negative things appear in the news)

And you know, going to your local Christian church wont kill you. I attended a Buddhist temple for a little while with a girlfriend because I wanted to know what it was about - it didnt hurt me and now I have a better understanding.

One thing is for sure - gay marriage isnt the #1 religious issue on the minds of any of the Christians I know.. it doesnt even make the top 10.

[bmolsson]

Stop getting your information about Christianity from the news.(Only negative things appear in the news)

Fox News ??

[Don Corleone]

First, BP, quite possibly the best post I've ever seen you write. I couldn't agree with you more, and shame on all of us Christians that the world sees us as you do.

Kiwitt, Speaking from my own point of view, as somebody who's got more than a passing acquaintance with the bible himself, it's not really that important that you believe in God, it's important that He believes in you. Don't worry about whether you believe Christ was a man or a facet of the triune existence of God. Seriously. What you believe, you believe.

Christ himself said two things on the matter: "Love the Lord God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul" and "Love your neighbor as you love yourself". If you don't believe in anything other than the here and now, I think the 2nd will do just fine in a pinch. If you believe in both, dont' worry about what you call Him and whether Jesus fits into that equation. He didn't.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Go get a real job there enough good comedians out of work already.

[Roark]

I cant believe I totally agree with a post by BP on this topic. Whats the org coming to?

I was pretty freaked out too...

Well said, BP...

[Byzantine Prince]

Stop getting your information about Christianity from the news.(Only negative things appear in the news)

I get all my information from Encarta. That way I'm sure it's correct.

And you know, going to your local Christian church wont kill you. I attended a Buddhist temple for a little while with a girlfriend because I wanted to know what it was about - it didnt hurt me and now I have a better understanding.

I've been to church many times my friend. I was Christian 1 year and a half ago. I believed in god and all that. I've also been to a mormon church. God those people are dull.

[PanzerJaeger]

I get all my information from Encarta. That way I'm sure it's correct.

Hehe, i doubt encarta told you that Christians only talk about:

gay marriage and abortion, as if those are the biggest issues jesus ever talked about.

Maybe it did though, i dont use it.

In any event, unless you attended a very politically oriented church, i doubt they pushed the gay marriage and abortion issues. I never heard about either of those issues in the church my parents brought me to.

Didnt you find most of the teachings fairly reasonable life lessons? No matter if your a Christian or not, Jesus is a good role model. Of course I dont know what church you went to though..

[kiwitt]

Kiwitt, Speaking from my own point of view, as somebody who's got more than a passing acquaintance with the bible himself, it's not really that important that you believe in God, it's important that He believes in you. Don't worry about whether you believe Christ was a man or a facet of the triune existence of God. Seriously. What you believe, you believe.

Thanks Don, that is the best view I have ever heard about Christianity. So long as my wife and I live a "good" moral life, virtually following most guidelines as laid out in the bible. We need to live a life that helps "Him" believe in us. Why was this never said by any other of my Christian encounters.

I often say to my wife, we would make good "Christian" people, if we could only get past the "Belief in God" part. My wife has even worked in Christian schools and enjoyed the good nature most people had.

[ICantSpellDawg]

i dont know how people can do things without believing in the fundamentals. if people believe that jesus was a simply a man - what is the purpose of calling yourself christian?

any other guy with nice sounding ideas that basically contradict his message is just as legitimate

without a direct line to god or without being god, jesus has a message that is as important as any other decent guy - plus, he is a story book character

i know some nice people -doesn't mean i go around with a shirt that says WWSTEVEDO, constantly quoting some book that some followers of steve wrote about him to say how great he was

it is bunk
anyone who believes that religion is there just to make you feel better is a tool. there is a true crisis of faith because, i think, alot of people realize that faith is absurd and they are too scared to look at reality
realize that, in all likelihood, it is just you and me on a neverending path to nowhere (as far as we know). this is logical, based on what can be empirically understood in this life. To use logic to legitimate religion always seemed kind of absurd

the concept of god is ludicrous
and people use models that cant be proven to scare people into believing that "maybe they are real"

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Kiwitt, Speaking from my own point of view, as somebody who's got more than a passing acquaintance with the bible himself, it's not really that important that you believe in God, it's important that He believes in you. Don't worry about whether you believe Christ was a man or a facet of the triune existence of God. Seriously. What you believe, you believe.
Thanks Don, that is the best view I have ever heard about Christianity. So long as my wife and I live a "good" moral life, virtually following most guidelines as laid out in the bible. We need to live a life that helps "Him" believe in us. Why was this never said by any other of my Christian encounters.

I often say to my wife, we would make good "Christian" people, if we could only get past the "Belief in God" part. My wife has even worked in Christian schools and enjoyed the good nature most people had.

Its amazing how many of us believe this way. Even BP seems to be basicly onboard with this.

Maybe Im still a christain after all

[ICantSpellDawg]

Its amazing how many of us believe this way. Even BP seems to be basicly onboard with this.

you have an idea that sounds good based on the consensus of 6 people

sounds like you should start your own religion

[Byzantine Prince]

Hehe, i doubt encarta told you that Christians only talk about:

Blah, no I meant the philosophy of it, not the relevence to the news. It got mixed up I guess.

In any event, unless you attended a very politically oriented church, i doubt they pushed the gay marriage and abortion issues. I never heard about either of those issues in the church my parents brought me to.

They never mentioned them at the church I went ot either. But the media only shows church leaders bitching about gays and abortion, while ignoring other problems in society, like greed.

Didnt you find most of the teachings fairly reasonable life lessons? No matter if your a Christian or not, Jesus is a good role model. Of course I dont know what church you went to though..

Yes, but the Bible is an unreasonable philosphy book, if you could call it that. There's way more insightful books on how to live, such as stoic philosophers like Seneca. This is all my opinion though.

I went to the Orthodox Church by the way. Probable the most reasonable christian dogma out of all. The original too.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Blah, no I meant the philosophy of it, not the relevence to the news. It got mixed up I guess.




They never mentioned them at the church I went ot either. But the media only shows church leaders bitching about gays and abortion, while ignoring other problems in society, like greed.


Yes, but the Bible is an unreasonable philosphy book, if you could call it that. There's way more insightful books on how to live, such as stoic philosophers like Seneca. This is all my opinion though.

I went to the Orthodox Church by the way. Probable the most reasonable christian dogma out of all. The original too.

THE orthodox church was probably the original? THE original illegitimate church?
what is THE orthodox church that was around in christs lifetime? how is it different from the catholic church in terms of its inception? they disagreed and split up

there are other "earlier" churches than what you are probably referring to as the byzantine right

[Gawain of Orkeny]

THE orthodox church was probably the original? THE original illegitimate church?
what is THE orthodox church that was around in christs lifetime? how is it different from the catholic church in terms of its inception?

I believe most of the early church documents were written in greek not roman. Mass also was celibrated in greek not latin in the begging. Im just going by recollection here and maybe incorrect.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I believe most of the early church documents were written in greek not roman. Mass also was celibrated in greek not latin in the begging. Im just going by recollection here and maybe incorrect.

right - written in greek - because the eastern part of the world had a firmer grasp on the language

i doubt that many of the apostles spoke greek - it was the people who wrote the letters and the gospels who spoke greek - and they had never met jesus

is it possible that they missed something in the translation from aramaic to greek? yep - same arguement against the western church

i think that it is all bunk, but i hate to see when people prop up theirs as "better"

[Byzantine Prince]

THE orthodox church was probably the original? THE original illegitimate church?
what is THE orthodox church that was around in christs lifetime? how is it different from the catholic church in terms of its inception? they disagreed and split up

there are other "earlier" churches than what you are probably referring to as the byzantine right

The original church started in the 300's by greek speaking people(donno nationality). That's why everything is first written in greek. They were just known as Christians but when the first pope apeared and wanted to break off in 1054 AD. The eastern sect named itself Orthodox because they kept the old traditions like the beards and marriage of priests. They are by far more liberal, which ironic I guess.

[Papewaio]

Probable the most reasonable christian dogma out of all

Actually you are firmly proving BPs statement. With your unreasonable tiara tirade.