China getting uppity over Taiwan again... hardliner invokes the 'N' word

[Don Corleone]

50's, truth is I'm for China's annexation of Tibet. They brought some sembelance of the modern world to a backward hill kingdom. And before anyone says what I'm supporting I already know (in a fair ammount of detail, but feel free to enlighten me if you wish), and I don't care. The PRC is stong and willful enough to have Tibet and they are their fore entitled to it. Even if Tibet hadn't been taken over by China they probably would have had a communist uprising and be as bad off as outer Mongolia is now.




See the genis of the PRC claim is that Taiwan was given to the Chinese state. When that mean't the KMT the world was willing and ready to go along with it. When that came to mean the PRC, suddenly their is a huge problem. In one instant it goes from Taiwan is part of China to no it's not your dirty godless commies you can't have it. so saying the PRC has no right to Taiwan is horse shit, their never having ruled doesn't enter into it. Taiwans leaders need to be served 3 scoops of reality flavored ice cream with wake and smell the coffe sprinkles. Their continued health and properity depends on the mood the PRC is in when they take over the place. They need to abandon all hope of independence and settle for Hong Kongs deal, it's the best they're going to get.

One of the big reasons we're still there protecting Taiwan is they won't ever get Hong Kong's deal. From day 1, it was always going to be about punishing the Taiwanese for branching off in the first place. There ain't going to be no 'with Malice towards none' reunification, it's going to make Reconstruction look like a walk in the park in comparison. The Chinese (when they'll discuss it at all) are pretty clear on this. Some are in favor of it, some don't like it, but all agree, it will be hell on Earth in Taiwan when the PLA takes over. Look at what they did in Tibet, and Tibet wasn't even a rebellious province, they just resisted 'incorporation' too long. Taiwan's government is viewed as traitors, and any Taiwanese w/ half a brain & some cash should have a 'get off the island plan' when things start going South.

Oh, and by the way, the Chinese are pretty clear that in their minds, Mongolia is a province too.

[lars573]

Oh, and by the way, the Chinese are pretty clear that in their minds, Mongolia is a province too.

Ruling a place for 200 or 300 years will give you that attitude. I honestly think that the US trade deal is the only thing keeping PLA forces out of Mongolia. I can't and won't believe for one second that the PRC gives flying fork what the rest of the world thinks of what they do.

[Don Corleone]

Well, they never ruled Indochina, and that's on their radar screen as well. They've never gotten over Vietnam invading & taking their guy out in Kampuchea. The Chinese people are great, friendly, warm and very industrious. But their government seems like it's from another planet. Incredibly expansionist, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have a few plans for North America (and the rest of the globe for that matter).

Maybe as more & more business tycoons develop, they'll get enough pull to keep the party officials & generals in line.

[Roark]

50's, truth is I'm for China's annexation of Tibet. They brought some sembelance of the modern world to a backward hill kingdom. And before anyone says what I'm supporting I already know (in a fair ammount of detail, but feel free to enlighten me if you wish), and I don't care. The PRC is stong and willful enough to have Tibet and they are their fore entitled to it. Even if Tibet hadn't been taken over by China they probably would have had a communist uprising and be as bad off as outer Mongolia is now.

Wow...

I find that really... repellent.

1.25 million deaths. Many under torture.

Still, you're certainly entitled to your "might is right" opinion (as a white male who lives in a first-world country under zero threat of invasion).

I appreciate that you had the guts to speak your mind honestly about it, though...

[Del Arroyo]

Well, if you ever visit the Canal Zone in Panama, you'll notice that (literally) about nine in ten of the little restaurants and stores are owned and staffed by recent Chinese immigrants. And there are more coming all the time. I haven't done the research, but I do not believe this is a coincidence.

If you ask me, China is not too likely to take over anything by overt force. They threaten force with Taiwan, the idea being that in ten or twenty years they'll get it peacefully (I find this pretty likely).

Their policy of putting peasants into the towns and cities near the Panama Canal, though to our orthodox thinking it seems baffling, seems to me a perfect way to have an ethnic and economic claim to the area if it should they ever feel a need to "intervene", say, 20 or 30 years down the road.

I say the PRC is patient, and takes Sun Tzu's principles on soft-touch victory literally. Just look how they bribed WJC.

DA

[lars573]

Well, they never ruled Indochina, and that's on their radar screen as well. They've never gotten over Vietnam invading & taking their guy out in Kampuchea. The Chinese people are great, friendly, warm and very industrious. But their government seems like it's from another planet. Incredibly expansionist, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have a few plans for North America (and the rest of the globe for that matter).

Maybe as more & more business tycoons develop, they'll get enough pull to keep the party officials & generals in line.

Most of the PRC territorial assertions are based on this.


It's a map of Ch'ing (pronounced Qing or Manchu if you prefer) dynasty China before it's weakness (or backwardness) led the european powers and Japan eat it for lunch. As you can see Taiwan, outer Mongolian, and Tibet are all part of the fold. Now I have no idea why the borders of the Manchu dynasty are something to aim for by the PRC but that seems to be their goal.

Wow...

I find that really... repellent.

1.25 million deaths. Many under torture.

Still, you're certainly entitled to your "might is right" opinion (as a white male who lives in a first-world country under zero threat of invasion).

I appreciate that you had the guts to speak your mind honestly about it, though...

And most of you assume that Tibet wouldn't have had those 1.25 million deaths if they had been independent. You assume that Tibet could have managed it's own affairs with that worhtless theocrate on his throne. Tibet was aching for someone to come along and give it the right good kicking it needed, the PRC just got there before a home grown someone could come emerge.

And BTW might always makes right (no matter how it is cloaked).

[ICantSpellDawg]

Most of the PRC territorial assertions are based on this.


It's a map of Ch'ing (pronounced Qing or Manchu if you prefer) dynasty China before it's weakness (or backwardness) led the european powers and Japan eat it for lunch. As you can see Taiwan, outer Mongolian, and Tibet are all part of the fold. Now I have no idea why the borders of the Manchu dynasty are something to aim for by the PRC but that seems to be their goal.




And most of you assume that Tibet wouldn't have had those 1.25 million deaths if they had been independent. You assume that Tibet could have managed it's own affairs with that worhtless theocrate on his throne. Tibet was aching for someone to come along and give it the right good kicking it needed, the PRC just got there before a home grown someone could come emerge.

And BTW might always makes right (no matter how it is cloaked).

"if they hadn't done it, someone else would have"
absurd defense

[lars573]

"if they hadn't done it, someone else would have"
absurd defense

Absurd maybe, probably. Can you completely discount it, no. Look no further than Nepal for evidence of what I'm saying.

[Roark]

It doesn't matter a tinker's fart to the dead, the raped, and the tortured what might have happened in a hypothetical "what if?" situation that doesn't involve China.

Their behaviour was deplorable.

[Papewaio]

And BTW might always makes right (no matter how it is cloaked).

No it doesn't only a gutless bully believes that. Might only gives the ability to get away with being an a###hole for longer. However at some point someone else whom is more powerful comes along. So unless you want to pay for crimes with interest, then it is best to set a good example.

Justice may take a while but violent countries find it a lot harder to stay large then ones that are fairer.

The might is right idea makes for a very unstable government, this is what happened in South Vietnam and in the end they collapsed againsts a united North Vietnam.

Also the economic strength of a free country is normally far more better then a despot regime. The only time such a country can do well is by making enemies so that the people pull together rather then tear down the government.

China needs external enemies to distract its people from its poor performance so does Taiwan btw.