Historical Data for Bi??

[pezhetairoi]

That's it, I'm not buying BI. Oh gawd, priests are healers, they don't belong on the field except to cart sacred relics around for inspiration... wait that's an idea! Think of the Relic First Cohort, extra large in size, composed completely of templar priests, carrying a sacred relic that can be captured by the enemy?

But all the same, just because of that cheesy crucifix, which looks worse than any chessy cricifixes I have ever seen, I will not buy BI. Urgh....

[King of Atlantis]

Dont worry, all we have to do is force EB to mod this campaign too

[The_Doctor]

Does it have a holy hand grenade?

[player1]

Really, on what do you guys think that AD&D clerics got modeled on?

On military priests.

[CMcMahon]

Does it have a holy hand grenade?

As an upgrade, yes, but you can only get that upgrade in Antioch.

[King of Atlantis]

You guys should pm this idea to CA, i mean can anybody here find a source that says warrior priest didnt use the holy hand gernade?

[CMcMahon]

- One! Two! Five!
- Three, sir.
- Three!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

While the discussion has mainly focused on the battlefield priests and wether or not they are suspect from a realism aspect.
But what hasn't been looked at is what priests DO. I'm sorry, but I find a little hard to believe that troops engaged in a battle would notice a group of dress wearing men waving crosses, let alone take heart from tem. They noise of battle would prevent it. This IMO strengthens the case for making priests retinue only because realisticly your only chance to show your men that God is on your side is prior to battle. Once battle is joined priest would find it impossible to make any impact what-so-ever. What are the priests going to do? Tap a soldier on the shoulder mid battle, asking him about God? I don't thinks so.

[SMZ]

http://www.usachcs.army.mil/history/brief/chapter_1.htm
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Chaplain
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/newre...ote=1&p=847817

^as those links show, militant priesthoods, armed holy men, etc have been a part of military action almost as long as humans can remember and the Christian Church by this point in history was no different... there's your "proof", I expect it to receive the same welcome as "logic"...

somebody else already posted giving examples of holy men being slaughtered at various battles, it's evident they were close enough to the conflict to be reached easily

as to what they would do Elmar, it's the same thing any morale boosting prescence does... when the general sends his men forward to fight but remains in the rear this is never beneficial to morale and usually negative... the same with a holy man who promises victory and then scuttles away for safety. If victory is assured, why would he need to leave? Thus a holy man remaining near the army assures them that God(s) are with them and even if mayhaps He would overlook their own poor sinful forms, surely He will protect His holy servant.

EDIT: King of Atlantis - what is the point in babbling about holy hand grenades? Do you think it's equally as absurd for a clergyman to carry a club as a grenade?

Well then I have a short exercise for you. Go look at a picture of the Pope. He STILL carries a club.

[Horatius]

That's it, I'm not buying BI. Oh gawd, priests are healers, they don't belong on the field except to cart sacred relics around for inspiration... wait that's an idea! Think of the Relic First Cohort, extra large in size, composed completely of templar priests, carrying a sacred relic that can be captured by the enemy?

But all the same, just because of that cheesy crucifix, which looks worse than any chessy cricifixes I have ever seen, I will not buy BI. Urgh....

The Templars came into existence in the 12th century, sorry no Templar Priests.

However at this time Medicine was leaving the hands of private practice and surgeons and entering the hands of priests.

You forget that this is nearing the start of the dark ages, Roman Power is fading away at this time, and with it the field of medicine is starting to change hands from capable surgeons, and doctors of a variety of qualities back to the various priesthoods, partly because there are a lot less of them around.

[SMZ]

The somewhat rabid response has stunned me somewhat... a number of posters in this thread seem somewhat unbalanced on the side of hasty judgements and baseless proclamations.

Having a priest along to reinforce the troops morale isn't a far-fetched idea. Even today when many people aren't even certain a higher power exists, the U.S. military still has chaplains. There have been spiritual leaders in virtually every war mankind has fought. The priest wielding a cudgel is a matter of taste. Many probably didn't carry any sort of weapon at all, relying instead on the protection of their attendents and faith. Some most likely did carry some sort of simple weaponry for basic defense... a simple club works as good as anything else...

[Orda Khan]

The somewhat rabid response has stunned me somewhat...

Yes I agree....and there will always be the unit that people find 'cheesy' or whatever. I am certainly sick of reading how bad CA are, how bad RTW is, how bad BI will be.

For goodness sake, how many times do we have to read that sort of comment?

I do not like 'War Priests' either but I fail to see the point in posting this and other negative points over and over. If nothing else, it makes the Org a forum full of whiners and hardly likely to encourage visitors. Every thread seems to be hijacked by ( mostly the same ) members who go on and on. It really is tedious

.......Orda

[Asakura Lord]

If you don't like CA, the game, or how they are designing the game use your "choice" not to play it and stop complaining. If you don't like the unit, don't use it.

[conon394]

SMZ

But last time I checked the USMC for example does not deploy assault Chaplin teams to spearhead attacks (times change though and I admit the ex-marines I know were Vietnam-era, so maybe they do now).

Might not be a bad ideal if it was implemented as a extra you can but to have attached to your unit. As in pay another 10% and you get a priest attached to your unit of late roman infantry (kind of like a centurion or other officer in RTW).

As a regular unit though, personally I find ’em silly.

[SMZ]

SMZ

But last time I checked the USMC for example does not deploy assault Chaplin teams to spearhead attacks (times change though and I admit the ex-marines I know were Vietnam-era, so maybe they do now).

if you simply read what CA said about the unit... they are not going to be used as "assault" forces or to "spearhead attacks"

the note of condescension is not neccessary, if I wished I could ridicule you as well and probably with a much greater degree of accuracy - if you want to consider whether the units are logical or not, read my post in the other thread

[Productivity]

If you don't like CA, the game, or how they are designing the game use your "choice" not to play it and stop complaining. If you don't like the unit, don't use it.

I will stop complaining once they give me a refund for R:TW.

[Mongoose]

I will stop complaining once they give me a refund for R:TW.

If you don't like it, stop Bi***ing and travel back in time to warn your self not to buy it.

[Zenicetus]

Not whining here, just offering honest feedback and a personal opinion. The main thing that bothers me about the Priest is that it takes up a combat unit slot, and yet (as the description says), these units are not expected to actually enter combat. So now your army has 19 "real" combat units and one morale-boosting unit that's weak and has to be protected, and kept close to the troops (I assume) for full effect.

It just seems to me that it's adding another layer of micromanagement during battles. I'd rather micromanage actual combat units. In real life, I doubt that the generals of the time were having to worry about positioning their priests when managing a live battle.

It will be fine if you can choose not to use this unit, and still have an effective army. Choices and options are a good thing. I don't think it will be much fun if CA balances the game so you're forced to use the priest to win battles.

[Mongoose]

If you don't like CA, the game, or how they are designing the game use your "choice" not to play it and stop complaining. If you don't like the unit, don't use it.

In other words: "don't post here if you disagree with me"


I have wasted enough time on this...when and if i buy the game, the first thing i will do is remove this absurd unit. What i am trying to do now is convince CA to make it semi historical so that i will not have to remove it. that's all.It could be realistic AND FUN if they made it a kind of "Spectator" That boosted morale from a distance ad routed once the army was defeated.

Thank's

EDIT:

As a regular unit though, personally I find ’em silly.

Couldn't agree more. They would be fine as a sort of 'officer'.

[Asakura Lord]

Post all you want, event if you don't agree with me.

I agree that they are silly units, but they are there and I'm tired of people whining. ( so of course I'm whining about people that whine)

I give up

[Horatius]

It is realistic for Celtic and Germanic women to have accompanied the men to battle, the only thing that was silly about the screeching women was the name.

Besides what would you prefer a beaten up mercenary with 11 troops left or a morale boosting priest group?

[conon394]

It is realistic for Celtic and Germanic women to have accompanied the men to battle, the only thing that was silly about the screeching women was the name.

But they tended form a mass on non-combatants behind the battle line, not formal units.

[antisocialmunky]

Judging from that maybe they're like Prophets from EE and summon sodomy on the heathen hordes.