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    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Left's False Narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    Which itself looked back on the actual struggle between Cromwell, parliament and the monarchy in the previous century, which itself cited the Magna Carta and the liberties of the middle ages, which themselves... etc. etc.
    I don't think this is right. Just to cite Locke as an example, he used the followng language:

    "To understand political power right, and derive it from its original, we must consider, what state all men are naturally in, and that is, a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons, as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of nature, without asking leave, or depending upon the will of any other man." (Second Treatise of Government, 1690.)

    Like the above, Enlightenment Thinkers were not involved in historical argument to justify their position, but rational inquiry as to the nature of rule.



    Actually, only the Phaedo and Timaeus were widely available in the West. Where are you getting the idea that the Republic was known?

    The entire Aristotelian corpus was available in Latin translation only in the thirteenth century.
    I thought the Republic and the Laws were both available. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. (constant expossure to leftist thought tends to deaden the mind).

    Yes, the translation process took time, the key point is the recovery of Classical thought.



    Latin was the written language, Germanic tongues spoken. Again, you're looking only at theory and not at practice.
    Latin was written and spoken among the intelligensia.

    Yes I am looking at theory because it was theory that was used to justify the overturning of monarchic systems.


    Do Byzantium, Jerusalem and Alexandria count as part of The West?
    The 'West' is not a set geogrpahic point, but the ideas and values of a Civilization. Areas where those values have been replaced by say Islamic notions wouldn't qualify.



    The concept of free elections certainly is.
    I don't know what this means. Paritcipants in Ecumenical Councils were Bishops, themselves appointed, who were to decide theoretical stances. The last of these was in the 8th Century. This has nothing to do with the governance of a state or the rights of men.



    Then what is the inherent characteristic that makes the West better?
    I don't know there is an inherent characteristic. I don't even know what that would mean given culture and Civilization are constructs.
    Last edited by Pindar; 07-18-2005 at 22:05.

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