The Left's False Narrative

[Adrian II]

Modern Britain is better.
I can decide because I am a moral being.

The first sentence of that statement couldn't be more true. The second sentence, however, made me laugh out loud. And that contradiction made me think. I believe the second sentence exposes a major weakness in your position.

Western civilization can boast of unique accomplishments that we should cherish and defend with our lives, not ignore, debase or sell out to the first (or second) president or terrorist who comes along. The West is superior (or rather: has been superior until now) in the various ways that you state.

The West is superior. Three simple examples: the advent of democracy, the creation of science, the rise of civil liberties.

And Isabelle Adjani, I would add. All those who have watched that scene where she rises naked from a bathtub will immediately understand her inclusion in a list of Western civilizational achievements.

But here's the rub: the fact that the West produced these superior institutions does not mean that westerners are superior human beings. The West has changed the world, but it has not managed to change human nature. And I don't think we ever will, at least not in our lifetime, unless by crude genetic and pharmaceutical means with very uncertain outcomes.

I agree with Victor Davis Hanson's position that sees..

.. human nature as unchanging and history as therefore replete with a rich heritage of tragic lessons.

Which gives rise to the following question: how could these superior institutions have evolved in the face of immutable human nature? Why are they successful? My answer would be that they are superior responses to the 'tragic lessons' mentioned (I guess that, in a way, I am betraying my Dutch calvinist roots here).

As fas as democracy is concerned, I think that it is successful not because it reflects a superior human nature or moral position of people in the West, but because democracy is better than other, previous political systems at containing human nature and channeling its aspirations and energies in productive ways. It is the best system for humans to mutually check and balance their ambitions, to their mutual advantage. In other words, democracy is the best palliative for the disease called 'society'. This rhetorical short-cut is not meant to devalue democracy in any way, but this is a Internet forum post, not a Ph.D. thesis.

In a similar way, science is a superior response to eternal human curiosity and civil liberties are a superior response to the eternal human yearning to be socially and intellectually free. Of course these three major civilizational accomplishments have deep historic roots; so has human nature. Of course they can be traced back to Antiquity and the dawn of written sources; so can human nature. Of course they have roots and precursors in any historical civilization and in the remotest corners of the world: so has human nature. And of course, for that very same reason, they appeal to the large majority of mankind.

Pindar may well be right that these institutions could evolve more easily in Europe as a consequence of European historic fragmentation and competition between neighbouring political systems, competing religions and rival ideologies. We will never now because we can not experiment with history, turn back clocks or change historical outcomes.

And Pindar is certainly right that Asian cultures have no hang-ups about their superiority. Ask any Japanese, Chinese or Indian what they think of their civilization, and nine out of ten will shamelessly vaunt its superiority and (in the case of Japan) its superior uniqueness as well. Westerners, on the other hand, have always displayed and cultivated a great curiosity about other civilizations. Remember who invented anthropology.

On a side-note I would say that socialism is, in my view, a fourth major accomplishment of Western civilization, 'invented' in nineteenth century Germany and spreading across the world ever since. Arguments that socialism runs counter to human nature don't cut it with me. So does democracy, and look how we embraced that system after its numerous failures and in spite of lingering (and oft justified) doubts about its outcomes.

Now back to my initial question: what justifies our judgment that modern Britain is superior to Aztek society? I think it is justified by the knowledge that we have drawn from the aforementioned 'tragic lessons' of human failure and conflict. We know that our way of life is superior, we know that there are no Gods who demand human sacrifice, we know that dictatorship and slavery are both unproductive and unjust. As individuals we may not all be morally superior to an Aztek high priest, but our institutions are.

PS Superior topic, Pindar!

[bmolsson]

Now back to my initial question: what justifies our judgment that modern Britain is superior to Aztek society? I think it is justified by the knowledge that we have drawn from the aforementioned 'tragic lessons' of human failure and conflict. We know that our way of life is superior, we know that there are no Gods who demand human sacrifice, we know that dictatorship and slavery are both unproductive and unjust. As individuals we may not all be morally superior to an Aztek high priest, but our institutions are.

You don't know how the Aztek institution would have looked like today, if they would have been allowed to develop.
Warfare isn't a measurement on superiority, neither is resistance to small pox. Most western culture did have human sacrifice in their history.

Further more, ther is nothing that says that dictatorship and slavery are both unproductive and unjust. Look at China today......

[Adrian II]

Further more, ther is nothing that says that dictatorship and slavery are both unproductive and unjust. Look at China today......

I suppose this is a joke, but with BMolsson you never know..

So I'll answer your point anyway. Yes, slavery is unjust because nothing that we know of justifies the legal ownership of one race by another, or one group of people by another.

And we know that slavery is unproductive (or rather; less productive than free labour) as well. Slaves do not work any harder than they have to in order to survive and prevent being sanctioned by their masters. Therefore every nation will try to develop beyond that stage as soon as it can, to cut bond labour and child labour, to introduce minimum wages and to set about modernising its economy and social system.

[Tribesman]

Yes, slavery is unjust because nothing that we know of justifies the legal ownership of one race by another, or one group of people by another.
Rubbish , slavery is right and slavery is just , it says so in the bible

[Franconicus]

...On a side-note I would say that socialism is, in my view, a fourth major accomplishment of Western civilization, 'invented' in nineteenth century Germany and spreading across the world ever since. ...

Adrian, this is too much honor.
German philosophers did their share. But do not forget the British socialists (like Morris) or even the French (Proudhon). We owe them a lot. Even the British capitalists. They were always a source of inspiration for socialism.

[Adrian II]

Adrian, this is too much honor.
German philosophers did their share. But do not forget the British socialists (like Morris) or even the French (Proudhon). We owe them a lot. Even the British capitalists. They were always a source of inspiration for socialism.

Franconicus, you are a gentleman. As is the case with the other achievements, the roots of socialism can be traced far back in history, from Plato's Republic to the oldest African village economy. In the Middle East they can already be found in the Sermon on the Mount. Through the ages some of the world's major religions, both Western and non-Western, have been the bearers of socialist notions of social justice and collective responsibility, as well as laboratories for the practice of these ideas. Socialism was baptized by the French revolutionary Gracchus Babeuf somewhere around 1790, but its main tenets go back as far as mankind's known history for the same reaons I mentioned in connection with the other civilizational achievements.

[Franconicus]

Franconicus, you are a gentleman. As is the case with the other achievements, the roots of socialism can be traced far back in history, from Plato's Republic to the oldest African village economy. In the Middle East they can already be found in the Sermon on the Mount. Through the ages some of the world's major religions, both Western and non-Western, have been the bearers of socialist notions of social justice and collective responsibility, as well as laboratories for the practice of these ideas. Socialism was baptized by the French revolutionary Gracchus Babeuf somewhere around 1790, but its main tenets go back as far as mankind's known history for the same reaons I mentioned in connection with the other civilizational achievements.

Adrian, your knowledge is beyond comparison!
It is great to have a person with your wisdom and politeness back in the org

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

And Isabelle Adjani, I would add. All those who have watched that scene where she rises naked from a bathtub will immediately understand her inclusion in a list of Western civilizational achievements.

She is Algerian


Sir, your argumentation, although proved false, would have been better served with Monica Belluci anyway.

Louis,

PS: unless the major achievement was the bathtub, in which case, I'd like to apologize for my misunderstanding...

[Don Corleone]

What move does Isabelle Adjani get nekkid in???

[Louis VI the Fat]

And Isabelle Adjani, I would add. All those who have watched that scene where she rises naked from a bathtub will immediately understand her inclusion in a list of Western civilizational achievements.

She is Algerian

Sir, your argumentation, although proved false, would have been better served with Monica Belluci anyway.

Louis,

PS: unless the major achievement was the bathtub, in which case, I'd like to apologize for my misunderstanding...

The 'her' in Adrian's post can in English, unlike in French, only refer to living beings, not things. The unimaginative Anglosaxon mind does not think of a bathtub as a metaphysical female entity.

[Adrian II]

She is Algerian

She is French. Check for yourself, you self-deflating excuse for a soufflé.

Isabelle Yasmine Adjani est née à Paris 17ème le 27 juin 1955. Elle a un frère de quelques années plus jeune, Eric, célèbre photographe. C'est en 1969, au lycée de Courbevoie, que la découvre l'assistant du réalisateur Bernard Toublanc-Michel qui lui propose le rôle principal de son film Le petit Bougnat. Etc. etc.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Since when is anyone checking anything here ? I thought it was the place to discuss stupid generalisation, and put forward lie as truth! I want my money back!

Ok, her parents are algerian

Louis,

PS: by the way being born somewhere does not mean she is not of whatever citizenship am only nitpicking
Although, being born in France means being a French citizen, she may very well have both citizenship if she so wishes.

[Adrian II]

Although, being born in France means being a French citizen (..)

Aha, yes. Now, I don't want to nit-pick either, but here we touch upon one of the superior characteristics of French immigration policy. It does not attribute nationality according to 'blood and soil' principles, but according to those of Ernest Renan: all individuals who support and respect a nation's institutions are considered part of that nation.

Adjani is a French institution.

Nuff said.

[Pindar]

The first sentence of that statement couldn't be more true. The second sentence, however, made me laugh out loud. And that contradiction made me think. I believe the second sentence exposes a major weakness in your position.

Hello AdrianII,

Nice to here from you. I actually listened to I believe a colleague of yours the other day. I can't recall his name, but I think the fellow's name was something like De Veers. He has taken over the column that used to be handled by the murdered Van Goth. My guess is the position he was arguing is not very popular in your homeland.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand: I agree with most of your post. I only have a few minor comments. The first refers to the above quote: I don't believe there is any contradiction in a moral position making moral conclusions. I don't think it is a weakness either.

I don't think any one is arguing Western people are superior. People are people regardless of time or place. The focus, or rather my focus, was on civilizational mores.

I'll leave socialism aside for another time.

Now, to your major failing. Western Civilization's greatest achievement is not Isabelle Adjani , but Monica Bellucci. This should be a self evident truth. Go and sin no more.

[Adrian II]

Now, to your major failing. Western Civilization's greatest achievement is not Isabelle Adjani , but Monica Bellucci. This should be a self evident truth. Go and sin no more.

I'm afraid such blasphemy must lead to yet more heresy in one's Church. Watch, dear Pindar. Don't search your soul; just watch this image of pure delightsomeness and its truth will set you free.

For those who asked: the epochal bathtub scene was from the 1997 film L’Été Meurtrier (‘Murderous Summer’).

[Kanamori]

Does it have anthying to do with schnapps?

[Adrian II]

Does it have anthying to do with schnapps?

I couldn't answer that, Bourgeois, because I don't get the point. Please elaborate?