Basic Tactics

**Gaius Magnus** · 07-19-2005, 16:32

Originally Posted by Franconicus

I will try as soon as I buried my old army

By the way, welcome

Thanks! :) Been playing the TW series for about 4 or 5 years, figured it was about time to post on "The Org".

**Gaius Magnus** · 07-19-2005, 17:43

Ok, I tried it.

Brutii(AI, Attacking) vs. Greeks(me, Defending)

<Brutii>

4 Velites
6 Urban Cohorts
4 Legionary Cavalry
1 Heavy General

<Greeks>

3 Cretan Archers
8 Spartan Hoplites
1 General Cav*

* - I mistakenly made one of the Spartans the General, so this was just a cavalry unit.

I played this battle on Very Hard.

I formed my Spartan Hoplites into an Octagon with all corners overlapping a bit so that there were no gaps. I then placed the 3 Cretan Archers and General Cav in the middle of the Octogon.

I wanted this to be basically hands free to test the theory, but I did end up doing 2 things.

Right off the bat the AI took the Legionary Cav to the side of the Octagon and waited there. So, I faced my General Cav toward them inside the circle.

Also, at the end, the line of sight of one unit of Cretans was blocked, so only a few of them could fire. This was taking FOREVER, so I moved them a bit so that most of them could fire.

That's all I did the entire time.

Here are my observations:

The AI was ridiculously flawed, of course. I am used to much better performance out of the AI than I saw in this battle.

The Brutii first started out with a liberal pelting of my Hoplites with their Velites. So far, so good. They killed a few of my Spartans, but not many at all. Meanwhile my Cretans are picking them off like over-ripened berries on a heavily laden bush!

As the Velites provided a covering fire, the Brutii maneuvered their Legionary Cav around the side of my Octagon. This is when I turned the General Cav (not actually the general) to face them.

The Brutii lined the Urban Cohorts up facing the front of the Octagon while the Velites were still tossing pointy sticks at me. Still, so far, so good.

Then, the strangest thing happened. The Brutii sent 2 units of Urban Cohorts around the back of the Octagon where my General Unit (Spartans) was located. Then they just stood around for a while.

They finally lobbed some Pila at my General Unit of Spartans, then started trotting around back and forth in front of them as if they were tyring to find a way to flank. They could not find such a way, of course.

One of the Cohorts finally lined up face to face with my General Spartans, then lobbed some more Pila and killed a few more of my men. Then, they attacked head-on.

They made absolutely 0 kills in this manner. This unit just kept attacking until it routed.

The other UC unit that was in the rear then lined up, lobbed some Pilas, and charged the spears. They died.

The whole time, I am wondering "WTF, mate. Why the heck don't they just charge all of their cav and several of their units at one of the corners?"

And so the Legionary Cav sat there and watched their fellow soldiers become fertilizer.

All the while my Cretans are firing at these units, though very unsuccessfully.

After they sent 3 of their Urban Cohorts in this way, my Cretans had decimated 2 of the 3 remaining units of UC that were just - sitting there.

Then, out of nowhere, the Brutii Heavy General just charged the Octagon with some Velites in support. Wow. That was dumb.

Their General routed and later rallied.

One thing I noticed that was kind of silly, is that my Cretans were shooting the Spartans in the back of the head trying to hit the last remaining UC unit.

The final unit of UC charged the spears, and of course they subsequently formed another nice pile of green-clad bodies in front of my spears.

Then, I expected the cavalry charge.

It never came.

They just sat there while my Cretans decimated them. I thought they might charge after the Cretans ran out of ammo - nothing.

Finally, I had to entice them to charge with my general cav, and the moment they reached my cav and spears, they routed.

I wish I was able to make a custom game where I could control both sides. Then I could set the octagon up and I'm sure I could take it fairly quickly with the same setup of Brutii.

Well, back to my campaign.

**Gaius Magnus** · 07-19-2005, 17:47

I forgot to add...

I think the problem is that the AI is programmed to only flank with cavalry against Hoplites unless they are chasing another unit and they get very close.

I think the AI is also very heavily tilted toward flanking with the Cohorts, hence the aimless running around that they did, apparently trying to find a flank to grab hold of.

The cav were just absolutely petrified the entire time. They didn't budge. The AI simply didn't see an opening, and never tried to attack until I basically forced them.

**Nelson** · 07-19-2005, 19:18

Originally Posted by bluerepper

Been playing the TW series for about 4 or 5 years, figured it was about time to post on "The Org".

Coming to the Org is always a good call even (ahem) when you're long overdue. Still, better late than never. There's more Total War yet to come.

**pezhetairoi** · 07-20-2005, 01:22

I think bluerepper's experience will only come in custom battles when you didn't set the opponent to attacker and you to defender...

In campaign battles this never happens since the only time you can use this is on defensive, and this is when the enemy armies charge at you. So they won't just sit and wait. I once had 40 Roman units charging me (20 senate, 20 julii) but to their misfortune I was playing Germania, this was my grand army they were fighting, and my grand army had 13 spear warbands and 7 general/barb cav. So. The results speak for themselves--all 40 units massacred (not a single unit made it off the battlefield, believe it or not) and only 50 dead on my side. Whoohoo. It's vaguely therapeutic to see flags turning white en masse.

**Gaius Magnus** · 07-20-2005, 03:01

Well I definitely set them to attacker and myself to defender. The AI attacked, but the cav just.... sat there.

They got all nice and set up and ready to sweep me off the battlefield, and then just let their cav go to waste.

Then I was all like

**pezhetairoi** · 07-20-2005, 03:55

ah... you have a stupider-than-average AI. And that's saying a lot.

**Gaius Magnus** · 07-20-2005, 04:01

Heh, well I wish we could train the AI or something.

It has a hard enough time just holding a phalanx together.

**pezhetairoi** · 07-20-2005, 04:04

Yeah. I almost feel guilty beating up the AI like that. But, well, war's war. *shrug*

I've already done everything I can to make the AI more flexible and more of a threat, including that battle formation priority thing and modding starting units for them. But, to no avail. They die all the same. The only unit (and I mean the ONLY) unit that has so far caused my strategy problems are the Egyptian general units, because my standard LL anti-HA manoeuvres don't work on them because the LLs don't dare to get close to the chariots so the chariots can hold off my encirclement technique. Yucks.