how much do macadonians kick tail!!!!

[Zenicetus]

Last time, my force consisted of 5 cavalry and 1 hoplita unit (cca 160 soldier). The Greek came upon me with 650 men army (half hoplites, half velites) I decided to fight it down manually. Well, in the outcome I've lost 30 men, they've lost 600. It was unbelievable! I thought I've taken a great risk to have nothing but cavalry against those nasty hoplitas (which was a reasonable worry), but it proved too easy to best them.Well.

The AI doesn't seem to know how to keep a phalanx line intact. I love going up against them with calvalry, because it's so easy to tease apart the formation with feint maneuvers. Then they start running around like ants, pointing in all directions as they try to chase down my cavalry (hah!), and they get torn up with my bowmen and artillery. If the AI would quit taking that kind of bait, and keep the phalanx line intact and marching forward, it would be fearsome indeed.

But I guess that's not an easy thing to program in an AI routine... trying to figure out if an approaching enemy unit is "faking it" or actually attacking.

[Hefaistion]

hmm want to know an unbeatable tactic? just put up a full army consisting armoured elephants that you simply rush them all in to those stupid macedon phalanx and such. easy win minimum losses .

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Who needs archers when you have COmpanions and Cataphracts? I rarely use missiles troops in a decisive fashion except in brige battles. I have held the bridge separating Gaul from Northern Italia (west side of top of the boot) with an army of 1 chariot archers, 2 slingers and 2 swordsmen with heroics against 3:1 odds. That is the only time my missiles units are truly decisive, otherwise my cavalry and heavy infantry generally prove far more valuable, and besides archers and Cretans are fine for missile work.

[King of Atlantis]

Macedon has the best army..

Phalanx pikemen and compainion cavavlry. This is the best combo..

And like Uesugi said, you have acces to the cretian archers who are probably the best archers in the game.

[PseRamesses]

Hey, don´t forget the Greeks: Athenean hoplites, Spartan hoplites and armoured hoplites (can take on thoose dredded cohorts any day), decent archers (+cretan archers), heavy peltasts etc. Weak cav though but who needs them. I just bring 2 along for flanking.

[Krauser]

I like to do the whole traditional thing. Use siege weapons to soften them up, then continue with archers using fire arrows, and finally move the infantry in. Use cavalry to feint and break up their line or hit their flank.

[edyzmedieval]

Hey, don´t forget the Greeks: Athenean hoplites,

Excuse me?!
Athenean Hoplites?!

BTW,

Ptolemy, your apologies are accepted.

[Viking]

Man, this kicks tail!!!!(wouldn`t rear end be better? )

[King of Atlantis]

Excuse me?!
Athenean Hoplites?!

BTW,

Ptolemy, your apologies are accepted.

somebody has been plaing RTR methinks...

[magnum]

He's playing the Extended Greek mod. Several new units for greek factions to make them more comparable in ability to the Romans.

[Rayven1]

My tactic is a pretty traditional one. I stay in my spot while the stupid AI marches my way. I sit there firing siege weapons into the enemy formations till they get close enough for me to open up with arrows. Once they have gotten a bit closer I allow the auxila skermishers to throw a round or two of javilins before retiring behind my infantry. Once the auxilia has retired I allow the first line of infantry to go into fire at will mode. Most enemy units break from the first salvo of pilums even before they make contact with my first line. If they don't break then I allow the second line to go into fire at will while my cav harrasses the enemy missle troops to keep them out of range. The AI seems to like a all or nothing approch so by this time they would have destroyed thier cav on my spear troops, charging into obvious traps on the left and right flanks..

[Kourutsu]

I destroyed them with Germ warfare. I didn't have to send one unit in to take care of them.

[Conqueror]

Macedon has the best army..

Phalanx pikemen and compainion cavavlry. This is the best combo..

And like Uesugi said, you have acces to the cretian archers who are probably the best archers in the game.

You do realize that Seleucids also get phalanx pikemen + companions? And they get cataphracts which are better than maccie cavalry. Everything that Macedon can do, Seleucids can also do. But seleucids get elephants and chariots, while Macedon doesn't.

As for Cretan archers, they are mercs. Anyone can hire them, but only in certain provinces and only when they appear. You can't retrain them. Macedon can use them in custom/multiplayer battles though, which is a nice advantage to them.

BTW the reason why you should get good archers even when you have cataphracts and what not, is that you can then easily minimize casualties. Even win battles without a single casualty to your own troops. With the right formations and manouvering you can force a situation where the enemy has only two choises: to sit still and be killed by arrows to every last man, or to charge directly to your pikes. And good long range archers are very effective placed on stone walls when you sally out to drive away a besieging army.

[Arphaxad]

They sure do look cool those macedonians, and i have won a battle or two with them on my side...but i have also lost horribly. A freind of mine kicked my ars back to macedonia with a large selucid army, and i haven't dared use those macedonians again. Its all cohorts for me now. Long live Rome!!!!!!!!!!!

But yeah, macedonians are awesome in the right hands and should never be taken lightly.

[HarunTaiwan]

I've never lost to the Macedonians.

But they are one of the few factions to put up a fight, unlike that shite country Britain.

J/K mate.

[King of Atlantis]

You do realize that Seleucids also get phalanx pikemen + companions? And they get cataphracts which are better than maccie cavalry. Everything that Macedon can do, Seleucids can also do. But seleucids get elephants and chariots, while Macedon doesn't.


Really never knew


I like the macedons starting position much better though, plus their the kingdom the alexander came from. Sure they got a lot less than the selucids, but i like the better anyways.

[Wishazu]

Macedon has the best army..

Phalanx pikemen and compainion cavavlry. This is the best combo..

And like Uesugi said, you have acces to the cretian archers who are probably the best archers in the game.

macedon does not have the best army, Rome, Germania, Parthia, Seleucids, Armenia all have much better cavalry, also the Royal pikemen are mediocre at best compared with the phalanx`s of the greeks, seleucids, Carthage, Egypt and pontus and cretan archers are not that good...

[Papewaio]

Gentlemen please remove the swearing from your posts.

This is a PG site and we have people from 10 to 70 and this is one of the high traffic forums.

Good to see the apologies which is a good sign, just clean up the mess before the party begins.

[pezhetairoi]

It is pointless in arguring about which army is the best, really, because qualitative differences don't matter as much as the person who commands and uses them. If you play to each army's strengths then obviously that army will beat any other army's. After all, why is it that the AI keeps screwing up cohort battles and losing even though I am facing them with warbands and barb cav?

In the qualitative department, though, the Macedonians are sufficiently high in troop quality and diversity to ensure that they will not find it difficult to beat any army as is.

Even without melee mercenaries they are sufficient to the task, and with the Macedonians command and control is easy with troops being divided into simply phalanx/cavalry/ranged. Only three elements, and therefore much less command friction. In comparison with the Seleucids who have to divide their army into phalanx/legion/cavalry/ranged/chariots/elephants it is much easier command-wise to use the Macedonian army, and adapt it to different situations.

To address the apparently hot debate about Seleucids vs Macedon:

Seleucids have elephants, but Macedonians have archers, and they fire flaming arrows. And besides, there's always the phalanx.

Seleucids have Legionnaires, but Macedonians have Royal pikemen (who are actually hoplites, and that is correct because the Hypasists were historically hoplites, not phalangitai) who can meet them stroke for stroke in attack if not defence, and can for phalanx anyway that will give them the definitive advantage over the legionnaires for most of the combat. A word on Royals: Those who say Royals suck compared to the hoplite units of the Greeks are missing the point. The raison d'etre of Royals is not phalanx combat, but melee flank guarding. The phalanx is a bonus rather than the standard usage of a Royal unit. Why otherwise would the Royals be given a 10 attack in phalanx but a nasty 12 attack in melee? They can hold their own.

Seleucids have Silver Shield pikes, the Macedonians don't. But what does it matter? It is the cavalry that is the Macedonian decisive arm, not the phalanx which is there just to fix the enemy in place, not damage him.

Seleucids have Scythed chariots, the Macedonians don't. But the Macedonians have peltasts and archers to whom the chariots keep dying to. And they don't have enough of a crew to ensure the chariot can keep going once a fatal hit is scored. Admittedly they are deadly against any cavalry, but they are hopeless against any phalanx, and no general worth his salt is going to set any cavalry in the path of chariotry anyway.

Seleucids have Hetairoi cavalry. So do the Macedonians.

Seleucids have Militia cavalry to pepper the enemy with javelins. Macedonians have Sarissophori (a.k.a. Light Lancers) who can catch the militia, or at least keep them away from the main battle formation. Also, the Sarissophori are very fast, and very deadly with their charge of 15. Who needs cavalry melee?

I suppose that covers all the bases. Macedonians already have something for every eventuality without requiring the huge overkill-diversity that the Seleucids are provided with and which takes 2 turns to build anyway. Against the other factions' armies, of course, I will make a list.

Against barbarians: the Macedonians rule without doubt. They have an answer to everything the barbarians can throw at them, and then some, as the decisive blow is struck by cavalry that can overwhelm the enemy's barb cav which are the best ingame in attack.

Against Greeks: I rest my case. The Greeks have no cavalry worth talking about. Oui?

Against the Romans: The Macedonians are made for the Romans. Not only do they get to go for Rome early ingame, they will trash the enemy hands-down. The republican cohorts have no answer to the hedges of long pointy sticks they will face, and a massed charge by 4 LL will sweep the opposition away, much less with more cavalry, the way I do it.

Against the Egyptians: The Macedonian cavalry arm will be taxed to the max, but it can be done. Admittedly, though, here the usage of some mercenary camel cav would be useful for their morale effect.

Against the horsearcher factions: The cavalry, again. This is potentially the most worrying faction group you will face. But they can be beaten, especially if you use your phalanx as bait and send your cavalry wide to do a double envelopment the way Alexander did it against the Scythians. Even better if you get hold of some of your own Scythian mercs or Bedouins to face them with.

Against Carthage: Fear not their elephants, they run amok as easily as Seleucid ones. Iberians die like flies on pikes. Only their Poeni and Sacred Bands can make a dent, but with five rows of your pikes opposing two rows of theirs you get some advantage when it comes to the crunch, no? Also an easy victory, but only after you beat their longshields.

Against Numidia: Liberal peltasts, archery and cavalry are needed to kill the heavy archer support that any Numidian army can have. But, hey, you have LL, and they're on foot. What worries?

All that said, though, no matter how good the Macedonians are, their armies will die as easily if under a crap general who, for example, sends his LL on one-on-one melee missions against enemy cavalry, or allows his phalanx to be outflanked without relief by reinforcement or cavalry, or lets his levies stand alone against a massed cavalry charge without sending any counterforce, or does not use any of his troops/mercenaries for the purpose they were made for.

Qualitatively, and in the hands of a good or even decent general, Macedonians prod buttock!