Left Wing Club

[IliaDN]

Just one question:
Do you consider communism to be possible>

[Franconicus]

What do you mean. Everybody here has his own definition about communism. I like William Morris (News from Nowhere) most!

[IliaDN]

What do you mean. Everybody here has his own definition about communism. I like William Morris (News from Nowhere) most!

Utopic.

[IliaDN]

Quote: "Socialism in all its form is a dangerous ideology that should be countered at all times.

It not only endangers the wealth and economy of nations, but the cultural makeup as well.

Socialism breeds dependency, irresponsibility, and laziness and threatens those that are successful with taxes and laws aimed at social engineering.

As Europe becomes more socialist you will see unemployment rise, economies stagnate, and an ever increasingly entrenched class system."
No such things were normal in the USSr, or in the nowadays China.

[PanzerJaeger]

No such things were normal in the USSr, or in the nowadays China.

The things I stated were present in communist Russia.

Russia's economy was driven into the ground and its culture was completely changed. There was a great degree of incompetence and lazyness on the part of many Russians, as there was very little incentive to do any work - unless they had the misfortune of having their life threatened.

I dont know if China could be regarded as a socialist country - it was a stretch to compare the USSR, but it did have many socialist policies.

In any event, Chinas ancient culture was by and large destroyed and the cultural revolution was a disaster. And only as China has begun to embrace capitolist ideas has its economy started to grow.

[IliaDN]

The things I stated were present in communist Russia.
Russia's economy was driven into the ground and its culture was completely changed. There was a great degree of incompetence and lazyness on the part of many Russians, as there was very little incentive to do any work - unless they had the misfortune of having their life threatened.

Well than I must admit you don't know history of my country:
1. There was not any rise of "unemployment" ( more than that yhere was a raise of employment ( correct word? ) during 45-70)
2. As for incompetence and lazyness those began in 80-90.
Do you know that the USSR was the firet country which stopped using product cards after WW II?

[Franconicus]

What would you say about this statement:
"Capitalism in all its form is a dangerous ideology that should be countered at all times.

It not only endangers the wealth and economy of nations, but the cultural makeup as well.

Capitalism breeds dependency, irresponsibility, and laziness and threatens the poor with taxes and laws aimed at social engineering.

As Europe becomes more capitalistic you will see unemployment rise, economies stagnate, and an ever increasingly entrenched class system."

[PanzerJaeger]

Well than I must admit you don't know history of my country:
1. There was not any rise of "unemployment" ( more than that yhere was a raise of employment ( correct word? ) during 45-70)
2. As for incompetence and lazyness those began in 80-90.
Do you know that the USSR was the firet country which stopped using product cards after WW II?

A rise in employment doesnt automatically correlate with a rise in productivity. A comparison of American companies and Russian government run industry would show the merits of capitolism.

Also you didnt address my other two points. Russia's economy could not survive under extreme socialism and the culture of Russia was completely changed by the communist years. (whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is irrelevant.)

What would you say about this statement:
"Capitalism in all its form is a dangerous ideology that should be countered at all times.

It not only endangers the wealth and economy of nations, but the cultural makeup as well.

Capitalism breeds dependency, irresponsibility, and laziness and threatens the poor with taxes and laws aimed at social engineering.

As Europe becomes more capitalistic you will see unemployment rise, economies stagnate, and an ever increasingly entrenched class system."

I would say its simply an incorrect assessment. Where ever free market capitolism has been introduced, there has been a sharp improvement in the economy standard of living.

Socialism, taken to its extremes, tanks an economy.

[Franconicus]

Panzer,
I have an American collegue. Once he told me about his grandfather. He was working for a mining company in the mountains somewhere at the eastcoast. There was only one way to get to the mines, a railway, built and owned by the company. There was only one way to live, in the houses of the company. You could only buy in the company stores and the company sold you also your equipment. The company gave you not money but cards to pay at the company stores. He had to borrow money to buy the equipment and he was never able to pay everything back.
I would call this capitalism. But it did not increase the standard of living at least not for the workers. And created dependency.
Do not get me wrong. I am not talking about the US as it is today. I am talking about capitalism.

[Franconicus]

Utopic.

You know William Morris?