Left Wing Club

[IliaDN]

I don't really think a club is needed, but whatever. So whats on the agenda?

To oppose backroom conservatives, as well as other things like politics etc.

[Franconicus]

The LWC should do as every Socialist Club: Let's discuss how the ideal society. How is your personel ideal?

[IliaDN]

Read the ideas of your humanitas thread + some communistic and democratic ideas + main requirement - people will behave GOOD.
A bit childish answer, but so is the question.

[poirot]

How is my personel ideal?

Socialism within a democratic platform. Reduce military funding and channel it into education, social welfare, and medicare.

Legalization of same sex marriages. Uphold the right to abortions. Limit gun ownership.

[Franconicus]

That's it? It seems to be a very American way to think!
What do you mean with Socialism?

[Ser Clegane]

Just found a very interesting article on Spiegel Online:

American Capitalism vs. European Social Markets

I considered starting a separate thread for that one, but figured that such a thread would probably devolve into the typical US vs. EU discussion of which we had enough already, IMO.

It seems to fit quite well in the "Left Wing Club" as something to think about or to discuss

[Sjakihata]

A society ideal for me, is true freedom. Something which NO state have been able to give, yet.

[Franconicus]

It is an excellent article! It is a pitty that we cannot discuss it with our conservative friends. But you are right, better keep it inside the club. No conservative ever dares to come here as it is not allowed to wear guns

[JAG]

Just found a very interesting article on Spiegel Online:

American Capitalism vs. European Social Markets

I considered starting a separate thread for that one, but figured that such a thread would probably devolve into the typical US vs. EU discussion of which we had enough already, IMO.

It seems to fit quite well in the "Left Wing Club" as something to think about or to discuss

Brilliant article - and the other articles by him are equally as good and I look forward to reading the others in the coming days - thank you very much for the link.

What he states about the american way and European way working together is exactly the kind of society I want and exactly why I always idolise Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries so much, as they reach this goal so well.

I don't think he gives the UK enough credit though, believe it or believe it not, the UK is moving in the direction of a mixture of both models. Under Thatcher we had the most right wing, free market Prime Minister we have ever had and thus we moved quickly and extremely towards the US model. Since Labour has been in power however, there has been the necessary consolidation period and then in the past ~4 years a significant - if somewhat slower than people like me would like - movements back towards a more social model. We have introduced more benefits again, we have introduced more spending on public services and we have tried to introduce the belief in an equal, community based society. It is true the govt still firmly believes in privatisation and getting people into work, even if it means lower benefits than mainland Europe, but that is where the two system meet. It is an interesting time to be interested in politics over here, more so with the fact that Labour are still well supported by a clear majority of people in the country so we can really get the reforms through and entrenched.

Anyway, as I said very interesting articles and I think he is spot on. A society where social justice meets individual prosperity and benefits meet strong job opportunities is surely what we would all want.

[poirot]

That's it? It seems to be a very American way to think!
What do you mean with Socialism?

Relatively equal division of property, and no wages above $150,000 for anyone

[Crazed Rabbit]

The author of that article demonstrates a remarkable lack of understanding of economics.

Where capitalism stumbles, however, is in fairly distributing the fruits. It's complete fiction that the "invisible hand" will distribute the fruits. The fact is that if you let the market economy go unfettered without any controls, it will run wild and result in a "winner take all" society-- and that's what you have in the US and, increasingly, the United Kingdom.

Market forces will always fairly distribute the fruits. If one thinks one is not getting enough money at one job, they can go to other companies and seek out higher wages. If paying a higher wage is worth it to the companies, they will pay. If it isn't, they won't pay, and thus people are free to seek out the best deal for themselves.

Not only this, but this guy seems obessesed about 'the winner take all' system, as though there were a bunch of aristocrats lording it over the peasants and no middle class. In actuality, everyone benefits from capitalism. And, the income gap decreases during periods of economic growth in the US.

Relatively equal division of property, and no wages above $150,000 for anyone

So you would steal property and kill over any motivation for someone to work any harder after they make $150,000 a year?

A society ideal for me, is true freedom. Something which NO state have been able to give, yet.

Socialism most definately is not freedom. It regulates what trades you can make with people, whether it involve employment, housing, services, and dictates how you travel, what you allowed to do, how you can live your life, etc.

It also ruins the economy. Ex: The economic growth of the US vs Europe.

No conservative ever dares to come here as it is not allowed to wear guns

I don't wear my guns...openly .

Crazed Rabbit