I'm converted

[Azi Tohak]

Okay, after reading DensterNYs post about having problems in the battles, and having (for the ten-thousandth time) an enemy general impale himself on my pikes in RTR...I decided to give MTW a shot.

My old laptop was just barely under minimum specs (stupid laptop vid cards) so I had to wait until this computer (purchased for RTW). Anyway, I start playing...

And I must say, I think this game is superior. No more a-historical 5 full army stacks so you can smash everyone on every front (I'd love to see a 220 BC empire do THAT). I've actually got to manage my monies.

But best of all, I actually lost a battle! I was amazed! I don't lose in RTW to the AI (not to brag, but the AI is just bad). Now I have to play give and take with the Seljuks and Fatmids while praying I can hold onto Naples and trying to get Hungary and Poland to play nice so I can move all my troops (since I don't have the money to support many big armies) over to the East.

I love it!

Sure, MTW does not look as good as RTW, but then, it doesn't have to. I figure RTW is like the (just flat dumb) sorority girls on campus. Nice to look at, maybe fun for a while, but eventually, the lack of activity upstairs drowns out looks. MTW is more like the girls in my major. Maybe not so good looking, but certainly attractive enough, and being smart makes them more interesting for longer.

Sorry if that was too philosophical.

In short, I just wanted to say, I don't doubt the people who insist MTW is better anymore.

AI makes all the difference in the world.

Edit: Thanks Roark. Ahem...yes...I've only been playing for a couple of weeks (well, this and FF VIII) but I did buy VI and I am using the Byzantines (I've also used the Almohads too) right now mainly. Still in early, but I have graduated up to hard difficulty (what, the computer just flanked me?!? NOO!) and I am loving it. Except for Sicily. I just want to smack Sicily. Bad! Don't stab the big guy in the back! Bad!

And I am also an avowed Byzanto-phile. Have been for a while. So it is fun to use one of my heros (Alexius I) even if I can't use his son or grandson. Mmmm...Katanks...mmmm....

Azi

[Roark]

I really like reading posts by people who are excited by MTW, mainly because I don't feel like such a freak, or such a latecomer to the game. I've been going hard for 3 months, and I'm (obviously) still learning heaps and enjoying it immensely.

Have you got the expansion, dude? If not, I highly recommend it. Viking Invasion transforms the whole game.

What campaign are you currently running?

[WesW]

Don't feel isolated, Azi, there are a lot of other players, many of them old vets, who have come back to MTW as well, or else gone on to other series. I think that the EB mod will enhance Rome in a lot of ways, but all the tactical AI is hardcoded, and that is what the main gripes are about. It'll be interesting to see if these issues are addressed in the expansion, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Martok]

Ah yes, it's always good to see someone find their way to the True Path! Glad you're enjoying Medieval, Azi; may your Byzantines crush all who oppose them--especially the Sicilians.

[Mount Suribachi]

Welcome to the gang Azi

I bought MTW on the day of release and I'm still playing it (currently the Napoleonic mod) and having great fun

[Zarax]

Don't forget to try some of the mods after you've beaten the game a few times, they will really renew the challenge for you.

[DensterNY]

Hey Azi,

Yeah, RTW is certainly a beautiful game but there isn't much challenge to it as opposed to MTW. Certainly the combat is much more interesting which is of course the key ingredient in the Total War series.

I remember the first time I got my butt kicked by the AI which showed me clearly that this AI was a different creature than the one made for Rome.

I had my army in a well formed line... spearmen in the front, swordsmen and cavalry in the flanks with archers behind the line for support. The enemy was marching slowly towards me with what seemed to be a smaller army so I wasn't too worried. As they came within firing range of my archers, I got smashed on the side and the rear flank by their infantry streaming out of the woods... their line was marching slowly towards me so that they could get these other troops to slip through the woods and attack me. Panic ensues as my left sword flank is enveloped, my archers are routed and I draw in my right flank swordsmen to support. As this is going on the AI's archers begin to fire volley after volley upon my spearmen so I send my cavalry around their spearmen to stop them. However, my cavalry gets pinned by their cavalry and their spearmen charge into my cavalry and mince them. Needless to say my army soon routed and I received my rude awakening...

That led to my desire to research and develop battlefield techniques and now I give respect to my adversaries and I treat each battle as a strategic puzzle.

Also, a question for the community: Do you think CA intentionally watered things down for Rome to make it an easier game to appeal to a broader fan base?

[fester]

I'm coming back to .....Just posted some of the reasons why in the RTW forum. Imagine how excited I am as I've never realy played MTW properly cos my computer was below spec at the time. I had to auto calc. the majority of battles cos there where to many units for it to manage and it just crashed. When RTW was released I bought a comp. to match and have since lost my old coppy of MTW. God I'm so excited !!!!!! Longbows billmen an AI thats actually flanks me, loosing battles, a sense of achievement when I win a battle I could go on all night but I've got to go on amazon and order some thing realy important! Looking forward to posting again in this section of the forum.

[Roark]

I just finished my first Viking era campaign as the Saxons. What a rush.

It was actually a real challenge for my espionage strategy game, as the Saxons are restricted from building decent boats to cross the deep seas between the British Isles and Hordaland/Jutland, so I couldn't hit the Vikings where they lived. I had to start some big rebellions with the aid of my cunnywarren-spawned +2 valour spies.

Huscarles dominate, but I've got a fire in my heart for those nutty Berserkers now, so it'll be a Picts game next.

[el_slapper]

Finally got exterminated with the Welsh. 4-front war is not winnable in this game - especially as Viking Lands are unreachable. I didn't declare any wars - the AI just saw I was getting too strong & charged me from all directions . Was fun, but frustrating.

[Tamur]

After being gone for nearly a year, I'm coming back to MTW as well. I set up a tactics page in anticipation of RTW kicking MTW's tail tactics-wise. I was stunned to find that, not only are advanced tactics a thing of the past in RTW, but replays as well. *shakes head sadly*

*pops in MTW disk back in for the long haul*

[Zarax]

Welcome back to the rebel outpost, we never stopped working on MTW and while most noobs have gone to the fancy graphics/uber micromanagement/useless AI RTW the old egine is reaching its finest hour with many MODS being still in development and some near completion to complement the already excellent classics we have.

Personally, what made me go back to the old ways is the overcomplex modding that needs triple the work for stuff you could do in 20 seconds with MTW.

So I came back and started developing my small project, a mini mod based on faction specialization and improved strategical AI.

If you want something bigger there's the classic BKB, XL and MedMod...

[Mujalumbo]

So you enjoy MTW more than the newer RTW, huh? Don't worry, just relax and enjoy it, it's perfectly normal to feel scared and confused... :)

I just have to echo the sentiments made by earlier posters; when you're comfortable with the game, do try out one of the many mods: BKB's SuperMod, XL, MedMod, there's even an ancient mod called Hellenic Total War (though, I do wish the map was bigger and the units more balanced, but, c'est le vie.)

Don't forget to read the MTW guides if you're stuck; I've found them to be a superb resource. To paraphrase another poster, the game's starting difficulty levels have been rendered moot simply because a specific set of opening moves have been developed and perfected for each faction. Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't new things to try.

For instance, start up as the Turks, gather all your troops together and just leave. Start a steppe empire in the area above the Black Sea. Or keep going and boot the Danes out of Scandanavia. Or muscle your way through Egypt and set up shop in North Africa. Conversely, have you ever heard about an English empire based in the steppes? No? Try it out!

Edit:
Zarax's mod, too. I'm sure there's a few others I haven't mentioned, and I apologize to said mod developers in advance.

[TwinMfg]

I accidentally stumbled across MTW- and man, am I glad that I did (unlike my wife). I was searching for a manageable realtime combat game and found the RTW demo. Oh, how cool, I thought. Then: Bummer, my PC can't handle it. Guess I'll have to settle for MTW. Well, after reading some the posts here, I was thankful for an old PC. Now, how many times does THAT happen?

The guides are good. Perhaps a little too good, so I would caution you to not use them until you absolutely need to. Frog's unit guide is good to read for understanding unit strengths/weaknesses, etc. A must read while your game is being shipped to you.

But don't make the mistake of reading the faction guides while waiting like I did. The best fun is selecting a faction and learning its strengths/weaknesses the hard way. Reading the faction guides ruins that fun; therefore I was forced to install a mod earlier than I should have so I could have a greater challenge. In short, don't read the faction guides unless you're really stuck.

[kiwitt]

I love MTW so much I have two original VI expansion disks, so If one ever gets too damaged in play, I can always use the other. Only the original MTW is for loading the game. I echo the others. MedMod, XL and other mods, extend the game so well.

We don't need an upgrade to MTW, just another mod. Long may it live.

[TonkaToys]

I accidentally stumbled across MTW- and man, am I glad that I did (unlike my wife).

Do you mean you are glad that you stumbled across MTW but your wife is not so happy about it...
Or you are glad that you stumbled across MTW but not glad you stumbled across your wife?


MTW is fantastic.

[Roark]

Most wives hate MTW...

I'm on an involuntary program... 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off...

[TwinMfg]

Do you mean you are glad that you stumbled across MTW but your wife is not so happy about it...
Or you are glad that you stumbled across MTW but not glad you stumbled across your wife?


MTW is fantastic.

Oh, please, oh please, don't let my wife see this! I'd be sleepin' with the dogs for a year. In case you do see it, allow me to clarify, my lil' cactus flower: I MEANT OPTION #1!!!!

[Roark]

Psst... Dude... Do you think she bought it?

[DensterNY]

I accidentally stumbled across MTW- and man, am I glad that I did (unlike my wife)...

The guides are good. Perhaps a little too good, so I would caution you to not use them until you absolutely need to... Frog's unit guide is good to read for understanding unit strengths/weaknesses, etc. A must read while your game is being shipped to you.

But don't make the mistake of reading the faction guides while waiting like I did. The best fun is selecting a faction and learning its strengths/weaknesses the hard way. Reading the faction guides ruins that fun; therefore I was forced to install a mod earlier than I should have so I could have a greater challenge. In short, don't read the faction guides unless you're really stuck.

Two comments... First, I know what you mean about MTW and how your significant other can't understand the attraction and joy of the game. Where else can a man feel the joy of conquest and empire building? In his cubicle or corner office? hehe...

Second, I understand where you're coming from with your suggestion not to read the guides because they are very, very good... I remember playing my first game straight out of the box and getting slaughtered and making all sorts of poor investment and strategic choices... it was kinda fun stumbling around like a bumbling idiot trying to figure things out but that got old kinda fast.

Once I read Frogbeastegg's guide there was no stopping me... and I look at it this way... Think about a king or up and coming prince and the training and schooling involved in making them a worthy monarch. They are schooled in warface, the intrigue of politics and the economics of the nation and anything else that may be needed to rule.

[Roark]

I've only just started playing on Hard, unmodded, in Medieval period, and I still have a really tough time with the economics of Viking Era. I think it'll be a long time before I have to learn how to mod...

[Pericles]

Yup, MTW:VI is the best!

In my current game (as Turks, very hard, early, GA), I gave all other factions 500,000 florins, and now, in the year, 1335, I have the super powers Mongols, Byz, and Egyptians on all sides of me (I'm currently in 4th place in GA points).

I've had some truly spectacular battles: the Byzs and I have fought over Nicea numerous times with some massive, bloody battles. The Byzs have 7-8 command-level leaders, and massive troop levels, while I have had to continually hire mercenaries and launch Jihads, in order to keep attacking them.

Like two punch-drunk boxers we fought over Nicea almost non-stop for years... I was determined to kick them out and retain that province.

Finally, the Golden Horde started to advance south towards the Byzs and they finally called off their attacks to deal with the Horde.

I was exhausted... but it was bloody great fun...

And I would also suggest for people not to read the guides (unless you are really stuck). Learning the game, losing, and trying new strategies, is what this game is all about...

Cheers!