Italian help needed!

**The Blind King of Bohemia** · 07-19-2005, 18:46

I've searched everywhere but to no avail. Can anyone tell me who was the/a Counsul of Genoa in 1154 and the leader (Count?) of Tuscany around the same date. Details for those periods appear to be extremely thin off the ground. Thanks in advance.

**Afonso I of Portugal** · 07-19-2005, 19:58

BKB, i found this about the Grimaldi family (other branch than those of Monaco) that might help you.

about Genoa: http://www.grimaldi.org/

about Tuscany and north of Italy: http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gbrown/philos...y/Tuscany.html

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/an.../provence1.htm

**Hurin_Rules** · 07-21-2005, 15:46

There would not have been any 'count' of Tuscany in 1154, I don't think. The area had been ruled by a Margrave (Marquis), which is a rank or two higher than a count, up until 1115. Counts usually only ruled one city, and were often the vassals of the Margraves. Then, in 1115, the last powerful Margrave of Tuscany died (Matilda of Canossa), and the cities began to assert their independence. Pisa, Lucca, Florence, Siena, etc. all became more or less independent states. Since Matilda had no clearly-recognized heir, and had seemed to donate her lands to both the Church and the Holy Roman Emperors, I doubt the title itself held much meaning anymore. I believe Frederick Barbarossa later claimed some rights, and installed some German nobles in places in Tuscany, but Matilda's lands maintained a bone of contention for decades afterwards.

Are you interested in Emilia Romanga and Lombardy as well? matilda held lands there too and more or less the same thing happened. Sometimes when people talk of 'Tuscany' around this time they mean all the domains of Matilda, which included not only Tuscany but also cities in Emilia and Lombardy such as Bologna, Ferrara and Mantua.

The mention of consuls is usually seen by historians as an indication that the cities had become independent of the Margraves of Tuscany. So if there were consuls, it meant the margrave's authority no longer held sway within the city. The process of delegatin authority in the cities began in the 10th and 11th centuries, when the Saxon and Salian emperors began giving comital authority (the rights of the counts in the various counties) to the bishops of the cities. For a while, bishops ruled in many cities just like counts had earlier. Then, when the communes and the consuls arose, they took over that authority within the cities and became more or less independent. To confuse things, there sometimes remained 'counts' in the rural areas outside the cities (the 'contado') even after the cities had become independent.

**caesar44** · 07-21-2005, 22:38

Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

I've searched everywhere but to no avail. Can anyone tell me who was the/a Counsul of Genoa in 1154 and the leader (Count?) of Tuscany around the same date. Details for those periods appear to be extremely thin off the ground. Thanks in advance.

in 1154 Tuscany was ruled by Walf of Bavaria , the Duke of Spoleto , in genoa there were 2 consuls , did not find their names (maybe from the Spinola family) .