I have returned

**Silver Rusher** · 07-20-2005, 18:58

OK. Now, before anything else I would just like to say that I am very sorry for leaving this mod, and not only that but also not replying to e-mails etc. that I have been receiving. I know this mod would be much better off if I had given the campaign map files to the Uesugi or another of the mod members.

The second thing I would like to say is that I am very happy to see the brilliant job that GodsPetMonkey and all the other members of the team have done so far. I've looked over the screenshots page and everything looks very nice.

I would still like to make the campaign map for this mod however, if that is alright with the current team. I would have to start again, but that should not be a problem. I have learnt from my mistakes in the old CM and, provided other people can help me out on what has changed in the mod so far, I should be able to set it up without many problems. But as I said before, I will need to know quite a few things that have changed since I left, such as faction arrangements etc.

Thanks,
Silver Rusher

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 07-21-2005, 03:56

Welcome back!

I don't think we have made changes to what we want for the camp map since you left though... Anyone remember if we have?

The factions have changed somewhat but not the actual terrain I don't think. Here is the most recent list that I could find:

Burgundy = germania
Spain = scythia
England = gaul
France = dacia
Golden Horde = greekcities
Hapsburg = brutii
Hungary = numidia
Imperial Diet = spqr
Kalmar Union = spain
Bavaria = scipii
Mamluks = macedon
Milan = parthia
Moors = thrace
Muscovy = egypt
Naples = pontus = Knights of St John
Poland = carthage
Saxony = julii
Scotland = brittania
Turks = seleucid
Venice = armenia

**Silver Rusher** · 07-21-2005, 07:22

OK, that's perfect. Thanks, Uesugi. I see you have replaced the original knight orders + pope with the hre. Fair enough, but it does still trouble me that there is no Papacy faction. The Pope had a huge influence across Europe as you know, and the Papal States were fairly dominant over Italy. Perhaps we can replace Scotland with them maybe and make them a hard to defeat unplayable faction with military alliances with all catholics at the beginning?

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 07-21-2005, 21:49

I think it would be difficult to incorporate the papacy at this time, we are making papal rebels iirc and the church was not as powerful as it had previously been. If we make the papal rebels have a strong army of elite swiss guards they should be able to last quite some time.

**Silver Rusher** · 07-21-2005, 22:10

The Papacy being rebels... makes sense I suppose, but it wouldn't really feel right. But it doesn't matter.

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 07-21-2005, 22:46

Well we work within the limits of the engine unfortuantely... Having them as a sort of second SPQR style faction would be ideal I think, but with a slightly different implementation than the SPQR.

**caesar44** · 07-21-2005, 23:20

Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Welcome back!

I don't think we have made changes to what we want for the camp map since you left though... Anyone remember if we have?

The factions have changed somewhat but not the actual terrain I don't think. Here is the most recent list that I could find:

Burgundy = germania
Spain = scythia
England = gaul
France = dacia
Golden Horde = greekcities
Hapsburg = brutii
Hungary = numidia
Imperial Diet = spqr
Kalmar Union = spain
Bavaria = scipii
Mamluks = macedon
Milan = parthia
Moors = thrace
Muscovy = egypt
Naples = pontus = Knights of St John
Poland = carthage
Saxony = julii
Scotland = brittania
Turks = seleucid
Venice = armenia

The mod starts in 1402 , doesn't it ? so Spain was still divided to Castilia and Aragon , no ? limitations ?
I think that Othomans is a better name for the Turks and Polska-Lithuania for poland .

Bty , imho , this is going to be the most enjoyable mod

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 07-22-2005, 03:16

I think the actual in-game name that we were thinking about giving it at one point was Castille and Aragon, could one of our history buff members remind we what happened with that?

I think the Ottomans will remain the Ottoman Turks as that was only their name with the Europeans anyway and it will be recognizable for everyone that knows about them.

I don;t know about the Poland one though...

Glad to hear you like the way it's looking!

**Yggdrasill** · 07-22-2005, 11:59

Regarding Papacy -

I don't think the Imperial Diet as Senate faction is set in stone. We can still go with the 3 Italian factions + Papacy just as easily (the current system is 3 German factions + Diet so its simply a question of swapping the cultures between the Italian and German factions). We even have the faction standard done for the Pope. So it's all in our heads at the moment, no need to retrace our steps in case we change our mind again. Either way has it's virtues and flaws, so it's (unfortunately) a case of choosing the lesser evil. The Diet has the bonus of being more original (I don't think any other mod has adopted this system), also the role the Diet and Senate have is fairly similar, and also it allows us to gear the game for a 16th century civil war in HRE to decide the question of the Emperor.
Whatever the decision, one thing we should not do is to have the Papacy as a normal faction (because it is not a normal faction, the leader, Pope is elected not succeded by his sons etc). Also, there have been rumours that the expansion pack will feature the Pope - so the best thing to do right now is to sit on what we have, work on units and the campaign map and wait for the expansion to see what new options it can give us.

**caesar44** · 07-22-2005, 15:46

Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

I think the actual in-game name that we were thinking about giving it at one point was Castille and Aragon, could one of our history buff members remind we what happened with that?

I think the Ottomans will remain the Ottoman Turks as that was only their name with the Europeans anyway and it will be recognizable for everyone that knows about them.

I don;t know about the Poland one though...

Glad to hear you like the way it's looking!

A map of Europe in 1402 !!!
please check it

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....rope-1402.html

ha ?

**Yggdrasill** · 07-22-2005, 19:11

There are two reasons why we have a unified Spain instead of Castille and Aragon. One is obviously the limit of only 20 factions. It took us a long time to find which 20 to include, and as it happens, of the factions not included, IMHO Aragon doesn't even enter into top 5.

The other reason is for gameplay purposes. Spain was the superpower of the 16th century, and by splitting it into Castille and Aragon we lose that. We gain accuracy for the first 100 years of the mod, but after that (after 1485) it again becomes 'inaccurate'. So either way something is lost. The decision was made simply because Spain was too important in the 16th century to leave it as two factions, Castille and Aragon.

**caesar44** · 07-22-2005, 21:19

Damn with limitations !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Silver Rusher** · 07-29-2005, 07:52

Hopefully, BI will do away with faction limits. I say hopefully, though.

Anyway, I will be gone for a few days in Cornwall so I will not be posting here or in the dev forum until sometime next week.