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Thread: Strong Military

  1. #1
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Strong Military

    Some of our American friends stated that they believe in a strong military. Ceasar010 explained it to me:

    You dont become a super power with teachers and police. With out our military we wouldn't be top dog in the superpower league any more. And most american want to stay powerful. (caesar010)

    This idea is completely new to me, but I guess Caesar is right. It explained why the US military budget kept that high after the end of cold war. I do not know any other nation that defines its position by the strength of its military (well, maybe North Korea).

    The US leadership is not only connected to their military. They also lead because they are number one in economy (Wallstreet), culture (Hollywood) and politics (oldest democracy alive).

    Since I read ceasarís post I am wondering: what would happen if the US decreases their military budget to letís say one third. Would they be the leading superpower no more? Would it weaken or strengthen the US?

  2. #2
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    They also lead because they are number one in economy (Wallstreet), culture (Hollywood) and politics (oldest democracy alive).
    I do not believe this statement is entirely true. In terms of economy, the US is the top dog in the world (unless you count the European Union).

    But why is America is number one in culture? Because it can afford to spend the most on movies, which though visually spectacular, are shallow and for the most part badly acted. What about other forms of culture such as cuisine, theatre, arts, architecture, literature...? Bollywood produces far more films than Hollywood does.

    Iceland is an older democracy than America and possibly the world's most pure democracy.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  3. #3
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
    I do not believe this statement is entirely true. In terms of economy, the US is the top dog in the world (unless you count the European Union).

    But why is America is number one in culture? Because it can afford to spend the most on movies, which though visually spectacular, are shallow and for the most part badly acted. What about other forms of culture such as cuisine, theatre, arts, architecture, literature...? Bollywood produces far more films than Hollywood does.

    Iceland is an older democracy than America and possibly the world's most pure democracy.
    America's culture has the biggest influence on the world. It is Hollywood, it is Pop-Music industry, it is McDonalds and Coke. Like it or not, that's the way it is.

    My respect to Iceland. However, the political system of Iceland did not effect the world as much as the American. At least this is what I know. But I do not know the Island constitution

  4. #4
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Infact, I may be wrong about the democracy. America did indeed have one of the oldest participatory democracies.
    The Iroquios Cofderacy of the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, Senecas and Tuscarogas are an earlier participatory democracy. The United States representative democracy apparently drew much inspiration from this confederacy of nations.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  5. #5
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    A strong military isn't enough to battle the future threats to the modern open society. International crime and terrorism has clearly shown this.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    IMHO the current American leadership understands all about hard power, and next to nothing about soft power. And in time, unless they intend to turn the whole world into a prison camp, (and I sometimes wonder) that will be their undoing. The more military force they use, the less the rest of the world is willing to do as they would like out of affection for America.

    Any objective person would agree there is still a lot to respect in American values, (most of which are nothing to do with her rulers of course) but if they go down the route they are on in 20 years time IMHO they will be truly hated by the rest of the world. A bit less strong military and a bit more smart diplomacy would serve them beter IMHO.
    "The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag

  7. #7

    Default Re: Strong Military

    I like our military and i want to keep it as powerful as possible. I think its time we started voluntary militias for each state. (not those crazy paranoid racist ones only normal people allowed)
    Formerly ceasar010

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    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    ceaser010 you still haven't responded to me about how you intend to have a strong miltary without a sound education system.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgb
    Where do you think that strong military comes from. Lets take the coldwar for example. Do you think all of those nukes could have been developed without a strong education system? How about all those tanks that are in Iraq?
    What about your aircraft carriers? And the aircraft? Do you think they could have been developed if you didn't have a strong education system?

  9. #9
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    1 years mandatory national service for school leavers would ensure a strong pool of ready troops and should help tackle soaring adult obesity rates.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  10. #10
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
    1 years mandatory national service for school leavers would ensure a strong pool of ready troops and should help tackle soaring adult obesity rates.
    Then you should bring back conscription.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by dgb
    ceaser010 you still haven't responded to me about how you intend to have a strong miltary without a sound education system.



    What about your aircraft carriers? And the aircraft? Do you think they could have been developed if you didn't have a strong education system?

    If some one knows complex math they will not be better then a person of average intelligence if they are in the middle of baghdad. It will be who is better under stress.

    We need some guru smart people but if every ones like that who will be in the infantry. And other dangerous jobs. So i think educations fine they way it is here.
    Formerly ceasar010

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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by ceasar010
    If some one knows complex math they will not be better then a person of average intelligence if they are in the middle of baghdad. It will be who is better under stress.

    We need some guru smart people but if every ones like that who will be in the infantry. And other dangerous jobs. So i think educations fine they way it is here.
    Are you saying that infantry men are stupid?I dont think infantry ar stupid they are the bravest.(I have had infantry training also).
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  13. #13
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by ceasar010
    If some one knows complex math they will not be better then a person of average intelligence if they are in the middle of baghdad. It will be who is better under stress.
    I'm not saying send them into the battlefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceasar010
    We need some guru smart people but if every ones like that who will be in the infantry. And other dangerous jobs.
    Education is pyramidal though. To get one brilliant genious, you need 100 people with PhDs, 1000 with honours, 10000 with a bachelors degree, 100000 with basic high school educations etc. Maybe not those numbers, but you can't just pick one person out and say you're going to be a genious and that's what we'll train you for, you need to train lots to get a few at the top and you need those at the top.

    I'm not saying everyone needs a PhD (or even university) education, just that you need a strong base level education system. You seemed to be indicating that very little education was needed at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceasar010
    You dont become a super power with teachers

  14. #14
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    You could replace the infantry with clones, or robots or cybernetically and genetical enhanced super clones.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Strong Military

    No they are the best people we got i think.

    But if every one knows how to make a plane or make a new weapon. Less people will volunteer for the infantry.



    Because if you say

    "do you want to get payed twice as much and not get shot at."(air craft designer)


    Or do you want less money and to be in the sunni triangle for awhile. (infantry)

    What will the vast majority do....


    Look at it now no one will join the army or marines but the air force and navy recruiting is way up.
    Formerly ceasar010

  16. #16

    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by dgb
    I'm not saying send them into the battlefield.



    Education is pyramidal though. To get one brilliant genious, you need 100 people with PhDs, 1000 with honours, 10000 with a bachelors degree, 100000 with basic high school educations etc. Maybe not those numbers, but you can't just pick one person out and say you're going to be a genious and that's what we'll train you for, you need to train lots to get a few at the top and you need those at the top.

    I'm not saying everyone needs a PhD (or even university) education, just that you need a strong base level education system. You seemed to be indicating that very little education was needed at all.

    what i am saying is the education is fine as is.


    Its gotten us on top militarily and economically hasnt it???
    Formerly ceasar010

  17. #17
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Maybe my questions were not clear enough:
    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus
    what would happen if the US decreases their military budget to letís say one third. Would they be the leading superpower no more? Would it weaken or strengthen the US?
    Obviously it the US would loose the ability to beat every other nation whenever they want. They would be forced to co-operate. And it would cost jobs at once. On the onther side they could save millions and decrease taxes. That should increase their economy and create new jobs.
    The US would be forced to work together with their allies (NATO) and the UN. They would try to reform the UN. They would be leading again instead of walking alone.

    The US is like a man who carries a big gun to be respected and complains that nobody loves him.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Strong Military

    Since I read ceasarís post I am wondering: what would happen if the US decreases their military budget to letís say one third. Would they be the leading superpower no more? Would it weaken or strengthen the US?
    America has commitments to dozens of countries all over the world. To do this would embolden aggressive nations and destabilize the world.

  19. #19
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    America spends as much money on military as the rest of the world. Since the end of cold war lot of countries decreased their military budget. America acts as if it was still fighting the cold war. Even with one third of the spending they would be the strongest military nation in the world. But they would have to rely on local allies instead of control everything alone.

  20. #20
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    If i would like to be sarcastic,id say let them.If they want to be the sole superpower in the world and spend their money in military so much,let them do it.Soon they are having another cold war with China anyway.I hope that EU wont join the arms race.Infact i think if we Europeans would adjust our National militaries we could have very effective military too with even maybe less money that we are spending right now.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Strong Military

    Americans want to be self suffiecient we dont want to have to rely on the UN to keep us safe. Because if we did we would be easy pickings.
    Formerly ceasar010

  22. #22
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    [QUOTE=kagemusha]If i would like to be sarcastic,id say let them.If they want to be the sole superpower in the world and spend their money in military so much,let them do it.QUOTE]
    If I would, I'd say, why don't let them be the military superpower on Mars? It would help increase their ego and would not hurt anybody.
    Of course I would not

  23. #23
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Quote Originally Posted by ceasar010
    Americans want to be self suffiecient we dont want to have to rely on the UN to keep us safe. Because if we did we would be easy pickings.
    The European history shows that you cannot raise your security by becoming military superority on the long run. You will hurt the sacurity of the rest and they will combine their efforts and hurt you

  24. #24
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    [QUOTE=Franconicus]
    Quote Originally Posted by kagemusha
    If i would like to be sarcastic,id say let them.If they want to be the sole superpower in the world and spend their money in military so much,let them do it.QUOTE]
    If I would, I'd say, why don't let them be the military superpower on Mars? It would help increase their ego and would not hurt anybody.
    Of course I would not
    I have nothing against US being the most powerfull Nation in Mars.By all means.I say. Seriosly.If they are willing to use all their money in military.Let them do it its their choice.I have very different view in military then some of our American Patrons.Military is for selfdefence.All who think you can conguer the whole world with sheer military power have failed and those who will trye it will fail too.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  25. #25
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Any decrease of military would strengthen that country. More money could be used to help citizens and the rest of the world, instead of just killing people.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  26. #26
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Obviously it the US would loose the ability to beat every other nation whenever they want.
    They don`t have that ability unless they pretend to be insane. If there were no nukes, the US could bully everyone because they have the strongest military. As it is now, they can bully everyone who doesn`t have nukes. But in a cold war scenario, it doesn`t count who has the bigger weapon but who`s most ready to use it. If the soviets had realized that, they wouldn`t have spend themselves to death. Because of that the US cannot force China to accept Taiwan, even though they are military vastly superior. China will lose all claims over Taiwan the moment everyone is convinced they wouldn`t use nukes.
    Likewise, the US does not need a strong military to defend itself. They only need the promise that anyone who threatens them must be ready to die.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Strong Military

    steppe merc

    Its easy for us to say that we should cut funding... but we aren't there. Our lives aren't the ones depending on that equipment. I want americas soldiers to have the best equipment in the world.
    Formerly ceasar010

  28. #28
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Fine. Give them that. But we should stop spending money on making new nukes, stop spending money on the newest and fastest plane when we have perfectly good ones still working, stop spending money on missiles, stop spending money on totally unneeded things. If we slash our budget, we can still have very well equipped troops, without unneeded and wasteful things.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  29. #29

    Default Re: Strong Military

    steppe

    We need EVERY advantage we are at war. You are an american your self and you want cut the budget in the middle of a war . I think we need to take some of the welfare money and give it to military.

    Its time to make our military even stronger. The war on terror needs to be won quickly.
    Formerly ceasar010

  30. #30
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong Military

    Missiles, nukes and fancy planes can't win the war on terror.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

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