Barbarian Invasion - updated FAQ

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Quite a large team; probably more than most game studios get anyhow. How's the workload split? As in, what percentage of the group works on models, how many on coding, and how many on the historical research?

Well, it varies greatly. It's all voluntary of course also, so we take what we can get. You can't count on an 8 hour workday every day from any single person, but some turn more than that in each day anyhow. Others drop in with text or skins or other things to help from time to time. No real way of quantifying things, but I love maps, so I've tried to keep track of where folks are at.

[Greek_fire19]

Wow, who's the team-member in northern Iraq? Is he a serviceman or an Iraqi? Of all the places in the world I wudn't've expected that.

[The_Mark]

Actually Teleklos's maps are used to keep track of EB members, so the dreaded EB deathsquad* can keep the lazy ones motivated.

*zooming in and around the globe using double arsemode

[khelvan]

What if CA say Hell with you we make game Mod unfriendly?

Hah, that's funny. What you fail to realize is that they've already done this, to a good extent, even after promising that the game would be the "most moddable ever" or something equally hope-inspiring.

[RandyKapp]

Check out the new unit profile
http://www.totalwar.com/community/rtwbi.htm
Gallowglasses, woot =D

[Ranika]

Yes, because everyone knows Hiberno-Norse mercenaries from the Hebrides in the high middle ages were used as the elite of Celtic forces during the fall of Rome.

[Geoffrey S]

So when did those pesky Celts get a timemachine?

[jerby]

this really cracked me up

it is the gallowglasses task to hack away at the enemy battle line

btw, it looks very very medievil. am i right?

[Steppe Merc]

Jerby, they were mercanaries from the 1200 to 1300.

[jerby]

CA does it again....altough teh unit description rocks

[Salazar]

But all the Units shown to us imho look at least better then in Current RTW

[Mongoose]

That's true. they could have had "flaming war dogs"

[Ranika]

Jerby, they were mercanaries from the 1200 to 1300.

Well, partly correct; they appeared between 1200-1300, but were used as late as the 1700s. It's also notable, when they originally appeared, they used a 'sparth' axe; two-handed swords weren't that popular among them until the 1500s, except among some captains and such. So they're even further out of period.

[RandyKapp]

Im not careing because they look goood and have big swords. Just the kind of unit i likes for my fantasy games.

[KSEG]

Can anyone answer whether description on BI site correct or not?

[RandyKapp]

It is not as stated above ^
In terms of equipment its on the markish, 2 handed sword etc. But its out of time period and such.

[Ranika]

The description is way, way, way off. Real gallowglass were 'galloglaidh' or 'galloglaich'; it means 'foreign warriors'. They were a mixture, armament-wise, of Gaelic and Norse traditions that were cultivated in the Hebrides. They were no 'elite' of any actual kingdom; they were mercenaries. They fought for the Scots, English, French, and a huge list of others, but most notably the Irish. They resembled, in many ways, a mixture of Gaelic 'Ridire' (Knights) and old viking 'Huskarl'; with Gaelic clothing, a style of Gaelic chain, with a viking inspired helmet, and with the sparth, a long handled axe of viking design; they later adopted, largely, various Irish and Scottish two-handed swords, or the shorter Irish and Scottish longswords, with a two-handed grip (which predate the larger greatswords). The Irish hired so many of them to replace their badly decimated ridire; the retainers of the flath (chiefs) and other arras (nobles). They were given, by the Irish, lands in Ireland, but everyone else who hired them generally gave them some parcels of land too (they generally wanted a lot of land; the Hebrides weren't exactly the greatest position to be in economically). Gallowglass weren't some Celtic elite of a king; they worked for anyone who'd pay them. Real elite Gaelic soldiers were generally the arras, or their retainers, the ridire, and in some cases, around Dublin generally, the Ostmen, though they were also generally mercenaries, and the distinction between Gaelic Dubliners and Ostmen had pretty much ceased by this time. Even in the period that gallowglass were hired by the Irish, they were generally placeholders until they could train themselves local heavy infantry again, though many chiefs, in latter periods, steadily relied more on gallowglass, since, without the support of an actual king (since many chiefs no longer had a king; the Irish kings were mostly replaced by Norman lords, though some Gaelic kings still held some claimancy), training and equipping their own heavy infantry was usually too expensive. As an aside, 'ridire' is actually of Saxon origin; it's what they refered to the Gaelic heavy infantry as; said infantry were generally armored in chain or bronze scale armor, with a metal helmet, likely with cheekguards, and generally an axe, but sometimes a sword.

The 'gallowglass' unit is also ahistorical equipment wise in that, they're wearing trousers; they'd be wearing a knee-length shirt, be barelegged, have a longsword as a sidearm, as well as probably a hand axe. Otherwise the equipment isn't that bad; they did use two-handed swords (as noted above), and they did wear cloaks.

[bodidley]

The 'gallowglass' unit is also ahistorical equipment wise in that, they're wearing trousers; they'd be wearing a knee-length shirt, be barelegged,

I thought that the plaid was a post-medieval development Could you esplain?

[Ranika]

Plaid, no, kilts, yes. Plaid would be worn on cloaks; Celts had worn plaid for centuries and centuries, kilts were a renaissance era invention. However, wealthier Gaels didn't tend to wear trousers regardless. I explained above; they wore a knee-length shirt. It comes from Iberians, who settled Ireland and heavily affected the subsequent Gaelic culture. While poorer Gaels wore 'trews' (skin-tight pants that stopped just above the ankle), wealthier Gaels (including the Gallowglass, who were very wealthy mercenaries) wore the 'leine', the knee-length shirt.

Gaelic soldiers were generally split in two classes; 'proper' soldiers wore the leine; indentured servants, slaves, and militias wore a shorter, similar shirt, along with trews; however, in west Ireland, almost all soldiers wore a leine by the late dark ages, but in the west and Scotland, levies still wore trews. Gallowglass would've fallen in the upper echelon of soldiers though, and would've dressed like a 'proper' soldier; a knee-length leine shirt, bare legs, and leather boots. It is presumed by many that the difference between levies and real soldiers started when Ireland was originally conquered; pre-Iberian/Celtic soldiers would've been grouped as levies, and would wear the trews to distinguish them from the emerging Goidilic culture soldiers.

[Spongly]

Aren't there pictures of Gaelic soldiers in the Book of Kells wearing what looks like a pair of natty bermuda shorts with a sort of dinner jacket looking thing? It's the guy crouching down with the spear and tiny shield.

[Ranika]

Those would be light levied Gaelic infantrymen, wearing a padded jacket (called a cotun or acton) and trews (as described above). The trews were made to stand out more than they really would have, so a viewer would actually see them. Alternatively, it could've depicted said infantry in warmer weather, in which case they would pull the legs up over the knee, and tie them there, making them more a pair of light, baggy shorts. Also, I'm aware Ireland may seem like a bit of a cold place, however, if one lived there their whole life, and was in an occupation that required a lot of physical exertion, they would feel hot a lot sooner than most people, and get cold a lot later.

[bodidley]

Plaid, no, kilts, yes. Plaid would be worn on cloaks; Celts had worn plaid for centuries and centuries, kilts were a renaissance era invetion.

Thanks for the explaination. By "plaid" by the way, I didn't mean the English pronounciation "plad" as in tartan pattern, but the kilt itself.

[blz]

besiedes the obvious better look of the units, im not finding too much in BI...hopefully i will be surpised (doubt it tho :)

[jerby]

well they got one part of teh description right: it's their job to hack away at enemy's

[GoreBag]

Plaid, no, kilts, yes. Plaid would be worn on cloaks; Celts had worn plaid for centuries and centuries, kilts were a renaissance era invention.

Later than that, actually. It was more like a modern-era invention. The Scottish Romantic period was a little later than the rest of Europe's.

[jerby]

that unti description just gets betetr and betetr when you keep reading it:

-It's their task to hack away at teh enemy's battle line
-the people or teh north and west of the britisch isle have a long tradition of producing heroic warriows

[Ranika]

Yes, I said renaissance, but I suppose it'd come later; in any event, the kilt wasn't a piece of clothing used by early Gaels, however, that doesn't mean they all wore trousers, and certainly not upper-class mercenary soldiers like the Gallowglass.

And Gallowglass were more meant to kill enemy heavy infantry, and light horsemen (a sparth axe or greatsword could incapacitate or kill a horse). Not to attack their 'main battle line', which would, at the time, be composed of spear or pikemen a lot of the time; lighter infantry and skirmishers existed for that. The gallowglass were also used to storm fortresses.

[Narayanese]

edited out slightly off-topic post

[Reverend Joe]

We think aiming for complete historical accuracy would also have been utterly boring for everyone except the dozen or so people who want a painstakingly accurately depicted Vexillationes Equites Sagitarii Seniores and a complete list of tribal factions and nations, all behaving like they were stuck on historical tramlines, with no choices for the player. Instead we create a start point that is a close approximation of an historical situation and then allow the player to alter history by their actions, thus probably creating a counter-factual outcome.

"When we grew up to school, there were certain teachers who would hurt the children any way they could...
By pouring their derision upon anything we did, exposing every weakness however carefully hid by the kids."

There's a Pink Floyd quote for every occasion.

Unless EB does something really incredible with BI, I'm not even going to buy it. If I want to play a historically accurate depiction of that era, I will play Maximus's Fall of Rome mod for MTW: a highly accurate depiction of the fall of the Roman empire, plus it lacks RTW's disadvantages.

[Chester]

What blows my mind is that CA will release a game set in history and at the same time cover it with a thin veil of fantasy.

I'm not sure why they would not go that extra mile and just make the game historically sound. Their best excuse, and also their only defense, is a poor excuse and no defense at all. They go on about how only a small number of fans actually care about history, they then ultimately taper off in to some BS regarding the destruction of game play and fun factor.

So they leave it up to the modding community who has brought the game closer to historical settings and not at the risk of game play. Sure the mechanics are not perfect, but that's only because CA will not allow that with all this secert hardcoding mumbo jumbo.

I think it should almost be illegal to micky mouse history like CA has done. I'm sure right now some kid or adult is trying to impress somebody with their extended knowledge of ancient Britan, and how they use to have a designated head throwing freak who tied heads around his waist.

Sure, you can argue that the any one trying to score dinner conversation from a video game is a twit, but I'm sure we all have at one point, and CA needs to come to grips with this, they're just setting up poor bastards around the world with hidesouly inncorrect BS.