GTA and the ESRB

[The Wizard]

The fools. Could they simply not have issued a warning through Rockstar, or forced them to release a patch that would have removed the content? Now we get this kind of crap.

Oh well, as if the crazy ESRB will effect us here. Ye olde European rating organization is a lot more lenient, even with the new reform.



~Wiz

[Geoffrey S]

Ah, those misguided censors. Anything to make a scene of it, get their plight into the media. And as for the media, it's so much easier to focus on this than on more important ongoing matters like Darfur.

[Azi Tohak]

Very nice Martinus. About as subtle as I was expecting...but...very nice.

Azi

[Azi Tohak]

Alex, younger rated games do not sell better. There are just more of them. Nintendo tried that. And they are getting smacked around here in the US by both Sony (big dog) and Xbox (little dog).

This is the June sales list:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/635/635696p1.html

1. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Xbox) Take-Two (M now AO)

2. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2) LucasArts (T)

3. Conker: Live and Reloaded (Xbox) Microsoft (M)

4. Medal of Honor: European Assault (PS2) Electronic Arts (T)

5. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (PS2) Eidos (E)

6. Destroy All Humans! (PS2) THQ (T)

7. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (PS2) Take-Two (E)

8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Xbox) LucasArts (T)

9. Destroy All Humans! (Xbox) THQ (T)

10. Madagascar (PS2) Activision (E)

11. Medal of Honor: European Assault (Xbox) Electronic Arts (T)

12. Forza Motorsport (Xbox) Microsoft (E)

13. God of War (PS2) Sony (M)

14. Batman Begins (PS2) Electronic Arts (T)

15. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (Xbox) Eidos (E)

16. Juiced (PS2) THQ (E)

17. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2) Electronic Arts (E)

18. Madagascar (Cube) Activision (E)

19. Advent Rising (Xbox) Majesco (T)

20. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (Xbox) Take-Two (E)

You'll see only 3 M games, but there are not that many new ones out. God of War has been out for a while, we all know about GTA and Conker is yet another Xbox M game.

For comparison, some of the highest selling games of this generation are: GTA:SA, Halo 1 and 2, Resident Evil 4 (right now only for Goody-two-shoes Nintendo), Half-Life 2. I can't think of one T or less that has sold as many copies as Halo 2 has for example.

Little kids like them because they are 'naughty' and they should not be playing them. And the kids know it. Parents are too damned lazy to figure out if what is entertaining their kids is a good thing or not. I think RE4 is one my favorite games of this generation. Should kids play it? Absolutely not. I think a not-zombies head exploding is hilarious. But will kids know the not-zombies are not real people? They sure do look good to me!

Rockstar has hurt the whole industry.

And Geoff S, you are absolutely right. That is the main thing that I hate about our media. "The flavor of the month (well usually week)". "If you don't watch our news program and find out just how evil video games are, you child will grow up to be either A. kill people for sport (ala Columbine) or B. be a useless adult just living to play games."

Makes me sick.

Azi

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The majority of those games (as you admitted) were T or E. Even though the worst offender is also the most successful, out of that list the money is probably on the side of the T and E (I can't know, since there are no figures). I would imagine that there are more high profile M games, but a greater number of T and E games (some of which do very well, like a certain Rome: Total War) means more money in those ratings ranges.

So individually, T and E games may not sell better, but as a whole I would bet they do.

And the ESRB is not a censor. Has it forcefully editted an game content? No. Then it's not a censor.

[Navaros]

The majority of those games (as you admitted) were T or E. Even though the worst offender is also the most successful, out of that list the money is probably on the side of the T and E (I can't know, since there are no figures). I would imagine that there are more high profile M games, but a greater number of T and E games (some of which do very well, like a certain Rome: Total War) means more money in those ratings ranges.

So individually, T and E games may not sell better, but as a whole I would bet they do.

And the ESRB is not a censor. Has it forcefully editted an game content? No. Then it's not a censor.

ESRB is not a direct censor, but because the ESRB exists, it causes devs to censor themselves (and hence dumb-down their art) in order to conform to the incorrect idea that "T" or lower rated games sell better

the only reason games like that generally do better is because there are a whole lot more of them on the market. hence there is bound to be more good games with those ratings on the market simply because they out-number the "M" rated games. the problem is simply that there are less good "M" rated games to choose from because many devs/Publishers don't have the cojones to make them.

the idea that having a game rated T or lower will make your game sell better is a myth that has been obliterated by hard data many, many times over the years. best example: any GTA game starting with GTA 3

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

It obviously doesn't cause some developers to censor their games or "dumb down" them - though the idea that the games are dumbed down is absurd. If the ESRB was truly effective, the GTA series wouldn't be as edgy as it is.

And why does a game have to be M-rated to be good? The entire Total War series is rated "Teen" and it's pretty bloody ( ) good. And it never had much blood, except for the heavily pixelated dead body sprites.

the idea that having a game rated T or lower will make your game sell better is a myth that has been obliterated by hard data many, many times over the years. best example: any GTA game starting with GTA 3

I haven't seen any such "hard data." If you have some, please share.

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

Still, you haven't shown that that is a "myth." Secondly, why must games include the "self-censored" content? Does Rome: Total War need mutilations, buckets of gore, sex-scenes, and prostitution to be a good game? No! So the argument that gamers lose out because of "self-censorship" is laughable. Games are not made first and foremost to have M-rated content in them. The games are made for some other purpose, and the content is included later for reasons like potential profits, atmosphere of the game, etc.

And YOU, Nav, are the last person I would expect to defend Grand Theft Auto. This is priceless.

[Papewaio]

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

You know Navaros you seem a whole lot more liberal when you talk about video games. What is your take on modders adding skins to scenes? Is it morally wrong, or okay in the right age group, or just a bunch of Leisure Suit Larry fun?

BTW would you live in a theocracy that banned video games?