GTA and the ESRB

[Colovion]

I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Hitting someone over the head with a golf club until they die and then repeatedly running over them with an automobile is much worse than a penis in a vagina.

I hate how paranoid the western world is of sex. Think about this absurd situation that the West (largely the US media and affialiates): Ads, Movies and Games are sold with largely two prime features: Sex and Violence. Suddenly people are upset, distressed and clueless how things go terribly or why children are no longer as innocent as they expect them to be or how such corrupting influences could possibly be out there.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
However, the Unites States is, IMO, very backwards when compared to the rest of the world in regards to censorship in games. Alot of companies tone down the American versions of their games to get a lower rating. Imperial Glory, for example, has blood in it in foreign versions--but that had to be removed for the sake of ratings in the US Version. Same for blood in RTW, but that was removed entirely.

Why do companies (allegedly) tone down game content to get lower ratings? Probably because it makes money. There are (hopefully) enough parents out there who care about the media their children consume to make ratings a big deal. This is all off the top of my head, since I don't know any figures or statistics, but I bet Teen games (I guess 12+ in the UK, but I don't know) sell better than Mature games. And of course Mature games sell better than Adults Only. I don't know about "E for everyone" games - I doubt it. My guess is based on the number of Teen games out there - I have to believe they are the majority. So if companies are toning down their games, its because the consumer base (and, presumably, the majority of the nation) wants toned-down games. Of course, I could be 100% wrong on this.

My point: companies only "tune down" games because it gets them more $$$. It is not censorship and its not backwards.

As a side note, CA has more than one reason to keep blood out of their games:

Firstly, we don’t put blood into TW games. We’ve been criticized for this because it’s not realistic, but it has no impact on playability. It’s still quite easy to tell who is dead on the battlefield without great gouts of blood. It was argued - and quite convincingly - that blood would actually reduce playability because graphics cards would have to do something that is, essentially, ‘eye candy’. Incidentally, it would also have affected the game’s certification (the T or 12 rating) to put in blood too.

Originally Posted by Colovion
I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Hitting someone over the head with a golf club until they die and then repeatedly running over them with an automobile is much worse than a penis in a vagina.

I hate how paranoid the western world is of sex. Think about this absurd situation that the West (largely the US media and affialiates): Ads, Movies and Games are sold with largely two prime features: Sex and Violence. Suddenly people are upset, distressed and clueless how things go terribly or why children are no longer as innocent as they expect them to be or how such corrupting influences could possibly be out there.

Well, yes it is ridiculous. The game should be rated AO even without this mod available. And I think (though I don't know for sure) that there was plenty of sexual content (prostitution at the very least) anyway.

[Proletariat]

Oh great, I should have guessed the might Proletariat would seek to Censor games, too.

Did you read what I wrote? Wanna take a wild stab at what 'BFD' might stand for? It has the words Big and Deal in it.

I'm not for censoring anything. This is a non-issue that's being run away with by people with nothing better to do. (ESRB supporters)

[The_Doctor]

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/635/635629p1.html

I thought it was quite funny and made you think.

[Colovion]

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/635/635629p1.html

I thought it was quite funny and made you think.

haha, thanks for that.

[The Wizard]

The fools. Could they simply not have issued a warning through Rockstar, or forced them to release a patch that would have removed the content? Now we get this kind of crap.

Oh well, as if the crazy ESRB will effect us here. Ye olde European rating organization is a lot more lenient, even with the new reform.



~Wiz

[Geoffrey S]

Ah, those misguided censors. Anything to make a scene of it, get their plight into the media. And as for the media, it's so much easier to focus on this than on more important ongoing matters like Darfur.

[Azi Tohak]

Very nice Martinus. About as subtle as I was expecting...but...very nice.

Azi

[Azi Tohak]

Alex, younger rated games do not sell better. There are just more of them. Nintendo tried that. And they are getting smacked around here in the US by both Sony (big dog) and Xbox (little dog).

This is the June sales list:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/635/635696p1.html

1. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (Xbox) Take-Two (M now AO)

2. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2) LucasArts (T)

3. Conker: Live and Reloaded (Xbox) Microsoft (M)

4. Medal of Honor: European Assault (PS2) Electronic Arts (T)

5. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (PS2) Eidos (E)

6. Destroy All Humans! (PS2) THQ (T)

7. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (PS2) Take-Two (E)

8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Xbox) LucasArts (T)

9. Destroy All Humans! (Xbox) THQ (T)

10. Madagascar (PS2) Activision (E)

11. Medal of Honor: European Assault (Xbox) Electronic Arts (T)

12. Forza Motorsport (Xbox) Microsoft (E)

13. God of War (PS2) Sony (M)

14. Batman Begins (PS2) Electronic Arts (T)

15. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (Xbox) Eidos (E)

16. Juiced (PS2) THQ (E)

17. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2) Electronic Arts (E)

18. Madagascar (Cube) Activision (E)

19. Advent Rising (Xbox) Majesco (T)

20. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (Xbox) Take-Two (E)

You'll see only 3 M games, but there are not that many new ones out. God of War has been out for a while, we all know about GTA and Conker is yet another Xbox M game.

For comparison, some of the highest selling games of this generation are: GTA:SA, Halo 1 and 2, Resident Evil 4 (right now only for Goody-two-shoes Nintendo), Half-Life 2. I can't think of one T or less that has sold as many copies as Halo 2 has for example.

Little kids like them because they are 'naughty' and they should not be playing them. And the kids know it. Parents are too damned lazy to figure out if what is entertaining their kids is a good thing or not. I think RE4 is one my favorite games of this generation. Should kids play it? Absolutely not. I think a not-zombies head exploding is hilarious. But will kids know the not-zombies are not real people? They sure do look good to me!

Rockstar has hurt the whole industry.

And Geoff S, you are absolutely right. That is the main thing that I hate about our media. "The flavor of the month (well usually week)". "If you don't watch our news program and find out just how evil video games are, you child will grow up to be either A. kill people for sport (ala Columbine) or B. be a useless adult just living to play games."

Makes me sick.

Azi

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The majority of those games (as you admitted) were T or E. Even though the worst offender is also the most successful, out of that list the money is probably on the side of the T and E (I can't know, since there are no figures). I would imagine that there are more high profile M games, but a greater number of T and E games (some of which do very well, like a certain Rome: Total War) means more money in those ratings ranges.

So individually, T and E games may not sell better, but as a whole I would bet they do.

And the ESRB is not a censor. Has it forcefully editted an game content? No. Then it's not a censor.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

We, as modders, should march apon the ESRB and protest. Then, I'll lead in the Sturmableitung and storm the building in a Coup d'eat (sp) and replace the ESRB with a more loyal council of me.

[TheSilverKnight]

We, as modders, should march apon the ESRB and protest. Then, I'll lead in the Sturmableitung and storm the building in a Coup d'eat (sp) and replace the ESRB with a more loyal council of me.

...you need to get out more j/k Kaiser

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....ticket_to_hell

Hilarious

[doc_bean]

Apparently, the people who made the Sims 2 are now being sold because there is a patch that allows you to see them naked. They look like barbie dolls then, but hey, it's a matter of principle !

[Productivity]

Apparently, the people who made the Sims 2 are now being sold because there is a patch that allows you to see them naked. They look like barbie dolls then, but hey, it's a matter of principle !

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07...s_6129609.html

Here you go

[Geoffrey S]

Hardly worth making a fuss about. As has been stated if the blur is removed there is nothing offensive to be seen. How is this worse than kids dressing and undressing Barbie dolls and the like?

"Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair.

It's great to see these people backing up their statements with firm, irrefutable evidence. "Video game news sites" hardly constitutes evidence, and this statement is obviously untrue to anyone who has actually played the game.

[Papewaio]

Why is it okay to blow someone away with a gun but terrible if a mouth is used instead...

This might explain why the Western world is having birthrate problems...

No sex just spank me instead

Movies and Video games are assessed by the same department in Australia.

[doc_bean]

Why is it okay to blow someone away with a gun but terrible if a mouth is used instead...

I always considered this to be more of a US problem than a Western one, if people complain about sex in public media here it's usually something along the lines of "Ew, we didn't want to see THAT, don't show it again".

[Productivity]

EDIT: Bah, I need to learn to read posts.

[Navaros]

The majority of those games (as you admitted) were T or E. Even though the worst offender is also the most successful, out of that list the money is probably on the side of the T and E (I can't know, since there are no figures). I would imagine that there are more high profile M games, but a greater number of T and E games (some of which do very well, like a certain Rome: Total War) means more money in those ratings ranges.

So individually, T and E games may not sell better, but as a whole I would bet they do.

And the ESRB is not a censor. Has it forcefully editted an game content? No. Then it's not a censor.

ESRB is not a direct censor, but because the ESRB exists, it causes devs to censor themselves (and hence dumb-down their art) in order to conform to the incorrect idea that "T" or lower rated games sell better

the only reason games like that generally do better is because there are a whole lot more of them on the market. hence there is bound to be more good games with those ratings on the market simply because they out-number the "M" rated games. the problem is simply that there are less good "M" rated games to choose from because many devs/Publishers don't have the cojones to make them.

the idea that having a game rated T or lower will make your game sell better is a myth that has been obliterated by hard data many, many times over the years. best example: any GTA game starting with GTA 3

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

It obviously doesn't cause some developers to censor their games or "dumb down" them - though the idea that the games are dumbed down is absurd. If the ESRB was truly effective, the GTA series wouldn't be as edgy as it is.

And why does a game have to be M-rated to be good? The entire Total War series is rated "Teen" and it's pretty bloody ( ) good. And it never had much blood, except for the heavily pixelated dead body sprites.

the idea that having a game rated T or lower will make your game sell better is a myth that has been obliterated by hard data many, many times over the years. best example: any GTA game starting with GTA 3

I haven't seen any such "hard data." If you have some, please share.

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

Still, you haven't shown that that is a "myth." Secondly, why must games include the "self-censored" content? Does Rome: Total War need mutilations, buckets of gore, sex-scenes, and prostitution to be a good game? No! So the argument that gamers lose out because of "self-censorship" is laughable. Games are not made first and foremost to have M-rated content in them. The games are made for some other purpose, and the content is included later for reasons like potential profits, atmosphere of the game, etc.

And YOU, Nav, are the last person I would expect to defend Grand Theft Auto. This is priceless.

[Papewaio]

it is sad that devs are still self-censoring their games in order to appease that myth. it is we the gamers who lose out because of that.

You know Navaros you seem a whole lot more liberal when you talk about video games. What is your take on modders adding skins to scenes? Is it morally wrong, or okay in the right age group, or just a bunch of Leisure Suit Larry fun?

BTW would you live in a theocracy that banned video games?

[Efrem]

There is nothing liberal about being against cencorship.

Actually its normally the opposite. Hilary is leading the charge remember.

[Alrowan]

ah well, all you yanks got it good, here in Aus they have actually pulled the game from sale, as of whenever they announced, its now a crime to sell this game, advertise it etc in Aus, gotta love how messed up we are, aparently killing people isnt so bad, but when your doing things that nature intended its all wrong, and we have to stop it:-/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4728261.stm


hey wait a minute, ive partaken in sexual acts, and yet i havent killed people??? does this make me a moral outcast?

*hears Hilary saying "yes"

dammit!!! i knew i should have just shot 50 people instead, at least thats acceptable :(

[Colovion]

ah well, all you yanks got it good, here in Aus they have actually pulled the game from sale, as of whenever they announced, its now a crime to sell this game, advertise it etc in Aus, gotta love how messed up we are, aparently killing people isnt so bad, but when your doing things that nature intended its all wrong, and we have to stop it:-/

ha. you'd think a country full of Britain's criminals would be a little different

then again, we all know being a criminal is fine, but a penis in a vagina? that's just WRONG AND UNNATURAL

[Productivity]

It doesn't help that we have an inane rating system, where the highest rating something can be given is 15+ - anything beyond that needs to be banned.

Just make an adults only rating and it will all be good.

[Papewaio]

I just figured it out. Hillary is trying to get payback for Bill and his thrills.

[Efrem]

Must be! I think you just got the entire reason behind this Pape.