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  1. #1
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    Jags gonna love this

    Vol XXVIII NO. 123 Thursday 21 July 2005



    Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    LONDON: Western foreign policy has fuelled the Islamist radicalism behind the bomb attacks which killed more than 50 people in London, the British capital's mayor Ken Livingstone said yesterday.

    Livingstone, who earned the nickname "Red Ken" for his left-wing views, won widespread praise for a defiant response which helped unite London after the bombings.

    Asked what he thought had motivated the four suspected suicide bombers, Livingstone cited Western policy in the Middle East and early American backing for Osama bin Laden.

    "A lot of young people see the double standards, they see what happens in (US detention camp) Guantanamo Bay, and they just think that there isn't a just foreign policy," he said.

    "You've just had 80 years of Western intervention into predominantly Arab lands because of a Western need for oil. We've propped up unsavoury governments, we've overthrown ones that we didn't consider sympathetic."

    Turkish student buried

    ISTANBUL: A Turkish student killed in the London bombings was buried yesterday after a funeral ceremony at an Istanbul mosque.

    Gamze Gunoral, 24, was the only Turkish citizen known to have been killed in the explosions on three underground trains and a double-decker bus on July 7 which killed 56 people.

    The funeral was attended by the governor of Istanbul, the city's police chief and two British policemen who flew in from London, the Anatolia news agency reported.

    Third Polish victim named

    WARSAW: British police have identified a third Polish national among the 56 people killed in the bomb attacks in London nearly two weeks ago, the Polish embassy in Britain said yesterday. The victim was identified as Anna Brandt, 43, who was probably killed in the explosion on the London Underground train near the King's Cross station on July 7, embassy spokesman Aleksander Kropiwnicki told the Polish news agency PAP.

    Two other Polish women, Karolina Gluck, 29, and Monika Suchocka, 23, were previously named as among the fatal victims of the attacks.

    Mosque failings in focus

    LUTON, England: Mohammed Rashid would like to employ a British-born imam in his mosque in this southern English town, but limited resources and a shortage of candidates mean he has to recruit from abroad.

    "It's a problem, there's no doubt about it," said Rashid, president of the Central Mosque in Luton, whose 35,000 Muslim inhabitants have come under close scrutiny since the July 7 bombings in nearby London.

    "We can't afford to pay our imam more than £300 (BD197) a week," Rashid explained.

    "If our young Muslims know they can earn £500 in the private sector, then why are they going to work as imams?" Muslim leaders say Rashid's problem is replicated across Britain. There is a chronic lack of well-qualified, homegrown English-speaking imams in Britain and, even when they are available, many cannot afford them. They therefore recruit imams from abroad who accept low wages but speak poor English, preach a conservative strain of Islam and are out of touch with their worshippers.

    Britain 'ignored threat'

    LONDON: The leader of a defunct Islamic militant group blamed Prime Minister Tony Blair's government and its "crusader views" of Muslims for the attacks. In an interview, Anjem Choudary, leader of the disbanded Muhajiroun extremist group, also said the British public shared the blame for ignoring Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden's warning last year that Britain would be attacked if it did not withdraw troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. Omar Bakri, the Muhajiroun group's radical founder and spiritual leader who is apparently being closely watched by British security forces, had on many occasions glorified suicide bombings in Iraq and by Palestinian militants in Israel. Choudary himself has been reported as saying that Islam regards as legitimate the kidnappings of Westerners in "occupied Muslim lands," such as Iraq.

    Choudary criticised Blair's meeting on Tuesday with two dozen members of the Muslim community to discuss anti-terror legislation the government plans to introduce by the end of the year. "This is not the time for talking; it's time for action," he said. Blair, he added, has "got to do something (about the policies) which have caused 7-7."

    "When Muslims talk about jihad, suddenly they're cast as terrorists and they're threatened with deportation. I think this is double standards, that's blatant racism, isn't it?"
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  2. #2
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    And Ken is right - as he often is. A great man, you should take heed of what he says.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    I knew it
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    My goodness, what is that shining brightness? I have seen the light!

    I'm sure giving billions to unaccountable African warlords in a valiant but foolhardy effort to eliminate poverty will surely stop middle class Britons from blowing apart their fellow countrymen in subways!

    JAG, seriously, it wouldn't matter if noone was poor and the world was a socialist utopia, the fanatics would still try to destroy the west.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    And what portion of blame does religious fundamentalism get?
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Humbled Father Member Duke of Gloucester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    Ken talked about causes, not blame. Blame is an emotive word that makes a good headline, but, in this case sheds little light because it is not accurate.
    We all learn from experience. Unfortunately we don't all learn as much as we should.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    Sorry last time I look democracies that teach science are not a hotbed of religious fundamentalism.

    If we are guilty of propping up dictatorships we get blamed.

    At the same time the very act of standing up to dictators is the spark for AQ (the west having bases in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War).

    The cause of the immense stupidity that is religious fundamentalism can (w)holy be laid at the feet of the religious fundamentalists. They will pick any excuse to match their agenda.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
    Ken talked about causes, not blame. Blame is an emotive word that makes a good headline, but, in this case sheds little light because it is not accurate.
    So then, he says the West caused radicalism? I guess that's better than blaming us for it.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    And what portion of blame does religious fundamentalism get?

    religious fundamentalism is the prime responsible....but, religious fundamentalism won´t work if it doesn´t have loads of people that feel wronged and desperate to prey on.

    i´m pretty sure that if a person lives a good dignified life it´s gonna be that much harder to convince him(her) to go blow him(her)self up in the name of some deity.
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
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    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Ken blames West for radicalism

    I can see how it AFFECTED the bombings but I doubt that it is a primary cause...People feel wronged and jealous all the time when they see wealth and I don't blame them. But thesemen were not poor, so how were they affected? By some madhat imam who can barely speak english? I really don't know with this one

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