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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?


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    July 21, 2005, 8:12 a.m.
    A Perfect Storm
    Privacy. Neutrality. Free Expression.

    By Rick Santorum

    Editor’s Note: This is the fourth in a series of five excerpts from It Takes a Family, by Sen. Rick Santorum. Together they comprise chapter 23, “The Rule of Judges.”

    I could go further and discuss the cases that touch on pornography and obscenity, also part of our moral ecology. For decades, communities in America have tried to shore up common decency, have tried to guard their collective moral capital, by regulating smut. Congress has likewise responded to Americans’ moral sensibilities by attempting to regulate broadcast media and the Internet. But time and again over the past generation America’s communities and Congress have run up against a Supreme Court intent to side against the American people and with the pornographers. The Court’s doctrine has been that virtually all efforts to regulate smut run afoul of the First Amendment, which the Court says protects all individuals’ “freedom of expression.”


    But let’s look for a minute at what that First Amendment actually says about our freedoms: “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging freedom of speech. . . .” Since this amendment goes on to discuss the people’s right to assemble and to petition the government, as well as freedom of the press, it is clear that the “speech” in question concerns, in the first instance, political speech — arguments about the public good. At the time this amendment was passed, the English Crown could and did regulate what could be published and said about sensitive political questions; in America, things would be different.

    But you may have noticed that in pornography the words aren’t really the point, are they? “Speech” implies words, rationally intelligible discussion and argument, communication. Pictures also can be “worth a thousand words,” of course: Sometimes images are central to a political or social cause. But America’s huge porn industry is not about political debate; it is not about the communication of ideas. It’s about the commercial production of objects of titillation for profit. Based on the text of the Constitution, the courts should have recognized a hierarchy of protected “speech,” with political speech and writing receiving the greatest constitutional protection, commercial speech less protection, and mere titillation the least of all. Yet in the topsy-turvy world of the new court-approved morality, limits on political speech like the recently passed McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill are just fine, but congressional restrictions on Internet pornographers are seen as violating the First Amendment and are therefore struck down.

    Privacy. Neutrality. Free Expression. None of these terms is in the Constitution. They “look like” terms that actually are there. Freedom from “unreasonable searches and seizures”: That’s in the Fifth Amendment. “Equal protection of the laws”: That’s in the Fourteenth Amendment. “Freedom of speech”: That’s in the First Amendment. That is why liberals believe what they are doing is merely refining the intentions of our founders, making explicit the underlying philosophical tenets of our Constitution. The problem is that these “philosophical” tenets are pure abstractions, fit only for those great abstractions, “liberal individuals.” But the U.S. Constitution was the fruit of long experience in the great complexity and wisdom of English common law.

    As Harvard’s Mary Ann Glendon has written,

    [T]he peculiar excellence of the Anglo-American common-law tradition over centuries, that which distinguished it from continental “legal science,” was its rejection of simplifying abstractions, its close attention to facts and patterns of facts. . . . It was this unique combination of common sense and modest . . . theory that enabled England and the United States to develop and maintain a legal order possessing the toughness to weather political and social upheavals. . . . When legal scholars distance themselves from those ways of thinking, they repudiate much of what is best in their professional tradition.


    The Supreme Court of the United States in the past half-century has been a bad steward of its own jurisprudential traditions, preferring instead the neat abstractions of the latest “theories.”

    Privacy. Neutrality. Free Expression. These three abstractions together make for a perfect storm, a jurisprudential hurricane for wreaking havoc on a moral ecosystem. Together they make of our Constitution not a document for democratic self-governance, but instead describe a pure liberal society of isolated individuals each doing their own thing within the politically correct boundaries carefully crafted and enforced by the village elders.

    The irony is that the tradition of common law had made marriage and family exactly a privileged institution; Supreme Court decisions originally based on this traditional conception (Griswold) eventually undermined that privileged status in the name of abstract privacy. Similarly, as Justice O’Connor observed, on its face the U.S. Constitution is not neutral between religion and irreligion. Religion is a specially protected category in the actual text of the Constitution: It gets a special mention as the “first freedom” of the First Amendment. Religion and the family were the two main agents for moralizing society, for generating new moral capital. The Court’s decisions have undermined these institutions, creating in their place a society of atomized and de-moralized individuals, shielded by the village elders from the natural moral influences of faith and family.

    — Senator Rick Santorum is the junior United States senator from Pennsylvania. Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, he is the third-highest-ranking Republican in the U.S. Senate.
    I dissagee with him on the porn but the main points are solid. Im going to have to read the rest of this series.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    I dissagee with him on the porn but the main points are solid. Im going to have to read the rest of this series.
    That was pretty much what I thought too. I think porn is protected, but the 1A was pretty clearly written with political speech in mind. It's absurd to protect porn on one hand while limiting political speech on the other.

    I dont always agree 100% with him, but I like Santorum. His positions are always , at least, well thought out and he's uncompromising on his beliefs- not one to take a poll before saying something controversial.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    Rick Santorum is a joke. He couldn't care less about the Constitution or the meaning of the first Amendment. He, like many other religious congressmen and senators, are only interested in finding a loop-hole for their agenda.
    Religious congressmen? Pushing an agenda is hardly limited to the religious ones. In fact, what's wrong with that? They're elected for their beliefs, why shouldn't they try to enact them? It'd be far worse to spout a bunch of beliefs and stances for the purpose of getting elected and then do a 180 when in office. It's up to voters to elect those that support their views.
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Religious congressmen? Pushing an agenda is hardly limited to the religious ones. In fact, what's wrong with that? They're elected for their beliefs, why shouldn't they try to enact them? It'd be far worse to spout a bunch of beliefs and stances for the purpose of getting elected and then do a 180 when in office. It's up to voters to elect those that support their views.
    Hear here!


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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Religious ones are, in my opinion, the worst of them, because they seek to undermine one of the clearest statements of the Constitution: "Congress shall not pass any law that respects an establishment of religion."
    It would be nice if you could back that up with some info on attempts to pass laws respecting an establishment of religion. I think we could also argue to a stalemate the definition of a "law that respects an establishment of religion."

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    GC, politicians come in three varities: those who tell you what they want do when elected, then do it; those who tell you what they want to do when elected then do the opposite; those who tell you what they want to do when elected, then do nothing. The first is an honest politician, the second is a liar, the third is a luggard. Would you really prefer a liar to a man who acts to principles you disagree with?

    In General, I lost all respect for Rick Santorum during Arlen Specter's primary race. We had a chance at getting a real conservative into the other senate seat in Pennsylvania, and Santorum was the death blow during the primary. He sacrificed any credibility with me by stumping for Specter, and I don't care what he wrote.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    In General, I lost all respect for Rick Santorum during Arlen Specter's primary race. We had a chance at getting a real conservative into the other senate seat in Pennsylvania, and Santorum was the death blow during the primary. He sacrificed any credibility with me by stumping for Specter, and I don't care what he wrote.
    Oh yeah. Forgot about that.

    Oh i'd love to see you argue that it means anything other than "Congres shall not pass a law that respects an establishment of religion."

    That's really got to be one of the clearest statements in there.
    I would probably argue that what Santorum is allegedly trying to pass in Congress is not an establisment of religion.

    I agree that it is very clear, but it's been so brutally misinterpretted.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    In General, I lost all respect for Rick Santorum during Arlen Specter's primary race. We had a chance at getting a real conservative into the other senate seat in Pennsylvania, and Santorum was the death blow during the primary. He sacrificed any credibility with me by stumping for Specter, and I don't care what he wrote.
    I happened to be in my car today when he gave an interview to Rush and was trying to explain his and Bush's support of Specter. It basically came down to Spectre went along with the party on things he didn't necessarily agree with and as a party leader it was his responsibility to support those who support the party.

    Read into that what you want. But, I too wish Toomey was in the Senate now instead of Specter. I voted Toomey in the primary, but it obviously wasnt enough, so I voted 3rd party in the actual election instead of voting for Specter.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    Oh i'd love to see you argue that it means anything other than "Congres shall not pass a law that respects an establishment of religion."

    That's really got to be one of the clearest statements in there.
    Not establishing a particular religion is NOT the same as requiring anyone who holds office be areligious, and trust me, the founding fathers were aware of the difference. It's Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Nobody's forcing anything. If I call myself a Christian in public, how is that forcing you to be a Christian? If I claim my acts are dictated by my Jewish faith, how does that force you to be a Jew?

    People, if you've been wondering what I mean by 'secular fundamentalism', this is it, in a nutshell...

    GC has no religious beliefs, and therefore, he is attempting to force the rest of us to act as though we have none to make himself feel validated. Again, you have freedom OF religion, including none. You do not have have freedom from religion, and have a right to enforce a secular worldview on the rest of us.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Santorum: What does the First Amendment really protect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    It's both. Believe what you want, but cannot force it on the people. I have nothing against religious congressmen, I have something against religious congressmen who don't respect that official state business should not be religious business.
    To put the thread back on track to the initial intent.


    You are incorrect in this - the amendment states very clearly what its intent is - and it has nothing to do with Freedom From that is an interpation that is incorrect.

    The actual wording of the amendment

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    Now it explictly states no law respection an establishment of religion those words had a very specific meaning to the founding fathers. And it did not mean that religious people could not be in the government, it did not mean religion could not be mentioned in the government - what it means is very clear that the government will not establish a state religion.

    Nor will congress make any law that prevents an individual from practicing a religion.
    Last edited by Redleg; 07-23-2005 at 08:20.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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