Even more trouble in London

[Shahed]

I have read nowhere that he was shot in the head 5 times. LOL ! You don't need 5 shots to the head to kill a normal man. From what I have read he was shot 5 times.

The problem with this is:

1. If he was carrying explosives any trained officer would have shot him in the head.
2. If he was clearly overpowered why shoot him at all ?

We don't have enough "official information" yet, but at this time it looks like this was most likely an execution of a suspect by the police.

The police need to answer some questions, and they better have good answers because the Brit public is not so easily placated like people of certain other countries are.

Any organisation or individual is perfectly, completely and totally justified in asking for the reasons behind this killing.

If you were "brown" and walking down the tube at Liverpool or any other station would you not be concerned about this killing and the manner in which it was carried out ? Why has there been no explanation given by the police ? What should this convey to the Asians living in Britain ?

Most Asians don't feel safe anymore than the average white Brit does. In order to keep the situation from turning into a dangerous riot the authorities must launch an independent investigation into this killing. Everything must be done to ensure that the due course of law was followed and it must be disclosed if the suspect was actually a dangerous threat.

This is Britain 2005, not some Inquisitor state in Medieval Iberia, it is completely insane under the current tense situation to allow police officers to perform their duties in this manner without a single statement from the authorities.

[econ21]

... but one thing is obvious. This was most likely an execution of a suspect by the police.

Obvious to you, maybe, but not to me. The term execution implies cold blooded killing with premeditation and motive. But that seems absurd here. There's no motive in the police wantonly killing someone who might help you catch suicide bombers. And there's no sense in them planning to chase a man into a tube station and kill him in front of dozens of people.

From what we know so far, the dead man appears to have been under surveillance - hence the large number of plain clothes armed police. My interpretation is that the suspect "made" the plain clothes officers around him and started to run for it. Heading into a tube train full of people, wearing a heavy winter coat, my belief is that the police thought it was possible the suspect would detonate explosives concealed on his body.

Yes, in an ideal world, the police might have restrained him or shot him in the head. But this was a break neck pursuit, adrenaline pumping. What happened probably seemed different to the police officers running in a headlong pursuit than it did to startled commuters in the train or people like us sitting at home in front of our computers.

A pursuing policeman caught up with the suspect as he entered the train and then rapidly pumped bullets into him to kill him. He did not try to restrain the man nor aim for the head, presumably because these would have taken more time and he feared immediate detonation of a bomb.

To be honest, I would have done the same. If I were trained in firearms, I might have second thoughts after the event - thinking, could I have avoided lethal force? could I have detonated the bomb by shooting? But from the comfort of my armchair, I can totally understand the policeman's action.

Now, I may be wrong with this interpretation. No doubt we will learn more in due course. But if I am right, you may call it an execution - I call it reasonable force.

[Shahed]

According to this graphic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm#graphic

The man was challenged i.e "stop or I fire" kind of instruction, to which man refused to comply.

That is at least some reassurance, however the question remains unanswered by the autorities, at this time, as to why he had to be shot 5 times at point blank range.

[Redleg]

Why did the police shoot a suspected sucide bomber in the head?

Really think about it for a second - the sucide bomber has been caught - he has nothing to lose at that time - and set off his bomb killing himself and the cops holding him.

Why more then once you ask - same scenerio - the possibility of the sucide bomber setting off his bomb must be reduced, the extra shots were to make sure.

The only thing the police need to do - is justify the reason for using deadly force in stopping this guy. And its best left up to the testimony of the individual police officers involved.

[Shahed]

Simon, I realised that statement would be inaccurate, and I had already edited it in the time you were writing your reply.

[econ21]

No problem, Sinan. I hope my post was not too gung-ho in response. Apparently, the police have now said the man was unconnected with the bombings, making the whole thing a tragedy.

[Shahed]

NP Simon. Your pst was great, well written and well constructed, lot of sense there. No offence at all.

So we were right in challenging authority and asking questions.
Please have a look at the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

[caravel]

A police force that cannot tell the difference between an asian and a south american... He was "brown" and running away from the police, so that obviously was enough of a reason to shoot? He may have been an illegal immigrant fearful of deportation, or his understanding of english may not have been good. There are any number of reasons. The police were in plain clothes, so it is highly likely that the man may not have known that they were police at all. It was commented that he was wearing a heavy coat in "summer". To a Brazilian an english summer is not a summer.

If this execution style killing had happened in Iraq or any of the "axis of evil" countries, the British Goverment would have totally condemned it. A totally transparent investigation is needed.

Those that see this killing as justified, making use of a "just in case" logic are actually bordering on the realms of the undemocratic.