Death and Heaven

**Quietus** · 07-24-2005, 10:31

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

The whole concept of leprechans is not metaphysical. If you wanted claim there were metaphysical leprecahns then there is no way i could possibly prove it wrong or right.

First of all, I don't believe in the metaphysics. Secondly, you believe in metaphysics, but you are excluding metaphysics outright.

I don't believe in Leprechauns because there's no physical proof they exist. Same with god or unicorns.

God is in everything, thus you do see him. Looking at a tree you are seing god, looking in the air you are seing god, but you want to see some mystic figure which isnt there.

Where did the text from the Bible come from? The Koran? What's god's language?

When i imagine god i admit i see an old man with a great beard. That is a picture society has imprinted into my brain and it cant be helped, but that doesnt mean thats what i think God is.

So God didn't make man in his own likeness?

I believe God is in everything, being everywhere at once thus what his true image is is unimaginable to me.

How do you figure god is everything and everywhere?

No but i have a chioce in what i eat for dinner. God gives us that choice.

Is wood a choice of dinner? Do you eat wood?

We did not evolve to eat wood. Choice is an illusion because you are limited to eating what you evolve to eat. For example fruit.

We evolved to eat fruits due to our special relationship with plants. We eat the fruit and we disperse the inedible seed. You get the energy from the fruit, the nonmotile plant gets the means to disperse the seed.

There's no choice. Evolution is random. Our relationship with trees and fruit is random.

Lets assume evolution wasnt random, what would you see differnet. Scientific evidence doesnt go against god. Obviousl God created a universe were there is a system to everything. Laws that all things are bound to. Religion doesn't deny this.

If it isn't random, there there would be inherent order. And we'd know where evolution is headed.

If you believed that God was all powerful, the creator of everything, surely he could set it up.

If god set it up, then evolution wouldn't be random.

Again God has made a universe of laws and systems, spontaneous creation wouldnt make sense.

Circular logic there. Also, you seem to be saying our random existence is god's plan.

How many planets, some would argue this, but the standard number is 9. One of them has life at the moment, but Mars might have had life at some point.

So one out of 9 is intent? And each planets have different physical conditions. Sounds very random to me.

I assume there is a creator to the creation
you assume there is none

We both make assumtions.

There is no proof of god and science does not support it either.

You seem so driven to find proof that God exist, but what kind of proof would you want to find

I want physical proof because there is none.

and further more God why would God give you such evidence, then we would all be faithful, but we wouldn't have any faith.

You just said 'a tree' is god....

**King of Atlantis** · 07-24-2005, 14:06

I said god is everywhere. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if God made the universe out of nothing it would be a part of him and he would be a part of it. Thus all creation is in his likeness.

Physical proof, give me an example of want you want to find. Imagine that you do bellieve in God/gods. I believe you couldnt thik of any evidence to find.

And we do have freedom to eat what we want. Like right now i could eat a pizza, a hotdog, etc... I could even go eat my dog. Thats free will.

Science isnt at odds with religion as science can never be used to prove or disprove a religion.

**Quietus** · 07-25-2005, 04:12

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

I said god is everywhere. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if God made the universe out of nothing it would be a part of him and he would be a part of it. Thus all creation is in his likeness.

You have no basis for this though. How can you be sure the tree is not a leprechaun in disguise?

Physical proof, give me an example of want you want to find. Imagine that you do bellieve in God/gods. I believe you couldnt thik of any evidence to find.

That's why you can't differentiate Leprechauns from a god or any other mythic creatures.

And we do have freedom to eat what we want. Like right now i could eat a pizza, a hotdog, etc... I could even go eat my dog. Thats free will.

You are only free to eat what you body evolved to digest, that's it. You're not free to eat your toothbrush, your spoon, your shoes or your pillows.

Science isnt at odds with religion as science can never be used to prove or disprove a religion.

Your body uses the same physical world to gather physical information as science does. If you or anybody can claim access to a god then science should have the same access. Therein lies the contradiction and discrepancy.

**Papewaio** · 07-25-2005, 04:16

Loss of information ie 'soul' should result in a loss of energy. So human bodies should cool down faster as they lose the soul... no extra heat loss then no soul.

**King of Atlantis** · 07-25-2005, 05:14

You have no basis for this though. How can you be sure the tree is not a leprechaun in disguise?

My basis is my belief and also logic. If there is a creator of the universe he would be all powerful.

That's why you can't differentiate Leprechauns from a god or any other mythic creatures.

You avoid the question. What proof do you want to see.

You are only free to eat what you body evolved to digest, that's it. You're not free to eat your toothbrush, your spoon, your shoes or your pillows.

actuall i could eat my toothbrush,spoon, shoes, or pillow though it might hurt me a bit. I dont think you realize what free will means.

Your body uses the same physical world to gather physical information as science does. If you or anybody can claim access to a god then science should have the same access. Therein lies the contradiction and discrepancy.

God could give you all the evidnece in the world that he exist, but then we wouldn't believe in him, we would be a mass a faithful while having no true faith.

**kiwitt** · 07-25-2005, 05:38

Heaven does not exist, until I have seen proof

My Death is the end of my life. And I will try to avoid it as long as I live.

**King of Atlantis** · 07-25-2005, 05:41

Heaven does not exist, until I have seen proof

since you havent seen proof it means it doesnt exist?

**kiwitt** · 07-25-2005, 05:52

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

since you havent seen proof it means it doesnt exist?

Quite Simply, Yes.

I am not into blindly believing things until they are backed up by independent evidence.

In this case of the the Christian "Heaven" all sources point to the "Bible" as the evidence. This is not independent "evidence". Also, it should be verifiable and corrobrated.

As I said in other threads, I had difficulty in becoming christian, as I had difficulty in believing in "God", hence difficulty in believing in "Heaven".