Magyar and Khazars

[Steppe Merc]

The Bulgars, will they be the Balkan Bulgars or the Volga Bulgars? Because there were really two Bulgar Kingdoms, one on the steppe, one in the Balkans.

Bopa, some of those horse archers should have no horse armor, IMO.

[Incongruous]

No alot of first hand sources state that the Magyars did use armour for there horses.

[Dol Guldur]

I saw your interest in the oft-forgotten Khazar Empire and thought I'd post some notes from my own study of this interesting matter of some years ago.

I can recommend Arthur Koestler's work (The Thirteenth Tribe), as a previous poster has linked to already - he drew on Arabic sources (to this day I believe Moslems refer to the Caspian Sea as Bahr-ul-Khazar, meaning 'the Khazar Sea').

The Khazars were a cavalry-based culture. They had an enormous power at one point and stretched over some centuries...

AD 0627: Khazars lend 40,000 horsemen to Byzantine Emperor in order to defeat Persians

AD 0635-0737: Arab-Khazar War (Khazar buffers Europe from Moslem forces)

AD 0641: Khazars defeat Bulgars - The Bulgars, after their defeat, split into two groups. Those that went northeast settled in the middle Volga and remained under the power of the Khazars. The group that went west were eventually to settle what we now call Bulgaria.

AD 0650: Fall of West Turkish Empire; Rise of Khazar Empire - The Khazars came to rule all of 'The Kingdom of the North' and at the height of their power controlled or had tribute from thirty nations and tribes between the Caucasus, Aral Sea, Ural Mountains, Kiev, and the Ukrainian Steppes. M.I. Artamonov, a Soviet archaeologist, wrote in his book Istroria Khazar:

"Until the ninth century, the Khazars had no rivals to their supremacy in the regions north of the Black Sea and the adjoining steppe and forest regions of the Dnieper...The Khazars were the supreme masters of the southern half of Eastern Europe for a century and a half, and presented a mighty bulwark, blocking the Ural-Caspian gateway from Asia into Europe. During this whole period, they held back the onslaught of the nomadic tribes from the East."

To emphasise the importance placed upon the Khazar Empire by the great power of Constantinople it is interesting to note that Constantine Porphyrogenitus, Byzantine Emperor and a historian, said in the Tenth Century that whereas the Pope of Rome and the Emperor of the West received communications from Constantinople sealed with a 2-solidi-worth gold seal, the Kagan (the Khazar King) received his letters sealed with a 3-solidi-worth gold seal!

AD 0732: Byzantine Emperor, Constantine V, marries Khazar princess (same year as Battle of Tours: Charles Martel defeats Moors in France)

AD 0740: Around this time the Khazars make Judaism their state religion - The Khazars had Jews (mainly Karaites, a strict sect) living among them and so were familiar with the religion. Not only this but the Jews evidently exercised quite some influence in the Kagan's court. The move to Judaism was thought to be a political move on the part of the Khazars, as converting to the Christian or Moslem religion would have meant being subordinated to the Eastern Roman Emperor or Caliph respectively. This way Khazaria retained its independence as a separate power in the world. The Jews considered Khazar a haven before AD 740 but afterwards came to think of it more as a national home. Khazar, in its written language and crafts etc., gradually became Judaized.

AD 0775: Leo IV (son of Constantine V by Khazar wife) rules as Byzantine Emperor (also known as 'Leo the Khazar')

AD 0862: Rus settle parts of western Russia; Novgorod founded; Kiev passes from Khazar to Russian control and begins to become central city of Russian federation; Russia begins its history as a nation under Prince Rurik

AD 0896: Magyars conquer and settle Hungary - The Magyars were a people related in their language group to the Finns, although they lived in the region of the Slavonic tribes. They were long-term allies of Khazaria and when they settled Hungary it is thought their ruling horde were Kabars (a tribe of the Khazars). The Hungarian language (Magyar) shows many loan words from a Turkic tongue.

AD 0965: The Rus defeat a Khazar army - Khazar (or Khazaria) at this point in time had lost much of its former power but was still strong in its heartland. Subsequent and vague events indicate that Khazaria was raided several times but may have survived as a state until AD 1150 or maybe even into the middle of the Thirteenth Century. Its influence, by blood and by its Jewish religion, spread into the nations around it though. Turkey, Hungary, Russia and Constantinople all received an infusion of Khazar blood, and Russia received many of the Khazar Jews. In Russian folklore Khazar is called the 'Land of the Jews', and in the West the Sephardic Jews referred to the Khazar Jews as 'Red Jews' (possibly a reference to the slight reddish colour of the skin compared with the West or perhaps because of their alleged Edomite blood). During the time after the decline of the Mongols in the West, Poland-Lithuania was well-known for its strong Jewish population and its many synagogues. The last of the Khazar migrations over to the Poland-Lithuania area (beginning around AD 962) occurred in the 15th-16th Century.
This evidence presents a strong, if somewhat controversial, case for Eastern European Jewry being of Turkic (Khazar) blood descent and not true Judahites. The Polish historian, Adam Vetulani, says on this matter: "Polish scholars agree that these oldest settlements were founded by Jewish emigres from the Khazar state and Russia, while the Jews from Southern and Western Europe began to arrive and settle only later...and that a certain proportion of the Jewish population (in earlier times, the main bulk) originated from the east, from the Khazar country, and later from Kievian Russia."

AD 0987: Russians take Crimea from Khazars - Byzantium did nothing to help their old allies, the Khazars, as Russia was becoming a powerful and more friendly nation (despite intermittent clashes with the Eastern Empire); the Khazars were beginning to decline in their importance as far as Constantinople was concerned.

AD 1016: A Byzantine-Russian army subdues Khazaria; Khazar migrations into Eastern Europe begin in earnest about this time

AD 1245: Around this time the Mongols invade Khazaria and Khazar ceases as a nation

The 'Jews' of Poland were most probably Khazars, and the Yiddish language probably came from a mix of the Khazar Hebrew in the Alpine regions rather than from Germany; linguistic studies lend weight to this view.

Hope this helps. Now, back to Middle-earth...

[Steppe Merc]

No alot of first hand sources state that the Magyars did use armour for there horses.

That's my point.
For your units, you have even the first level horse archers the Néptörzs Magyar with "Their horses had leather and scail protection and their stirrups allowed them great mobility upon the field." Most horse archers wouldn't have any horse armor at all, even many heavy cavalry.
To have ever Magyar with horse armor would be impossible, due to the expense. Only the richest of the rich could afford full horse armor.

[Incongruous]

I put the maile option in simply as an option, which could easily be replaced by leather and metal coats in the asian style, but still, the Magyars were known to use horse armour.

[Steppe Merc]

Yes. But, only a few, that is what I'm saying. There should be no horse armor of any kind except for the elite of the elite. No Horse nation, from Parthians to the Turks to the Mongols, or even the Byzantines or the Medieval Knights had all of their horses armoured. It was the opposite, only a few horses were armored.
Most steppe warriors couldn't afford any sort of armor for themselves. The few that could often couldn't afford horse armor. Only a very few could afford any sort of horse armor.
I'm not saying that none should have horse armour, but only the richest of the rich nobles.

[caesar44]

The Jews are steppe People !!! seems odd to me . but how can I know , I am living in the holly land...

[Csatadi]

Maybe I can help you in this project, but what is the starting time?

I do not remember any horse armour from the books I read about the theme.

The 'Néptörzs' word is too complicated, only historians use this word. The simply 'Törzs' is better choice. But similar to the Gauls they can be simply Magyars.

Baptizing people especially by force does not mean they throw away their original religion. No surprize there were pagan revolutions in 1046 and ~1072. The people -in this case the Magyars- will keep their customs and their old religion for decades until the missionaries and the rulers (soldiers) will wins.

I never heard about Varagians in the service of the Hungarian kings.

The people of the steppe were very similar. Besenyők (Pechenegs), Bolgárok (Bulgarian), Magyars, Kabars (or Kavars) Khazars all the same. Exceptions can be the special circumstances. I do not know how many chainmails and swords get the Magyars, did they use them or not.

Forgus the picture you inserted is an idealized one. Most of the people had only a bow and nothing else. Maybe a cheap koplya (spear) or a fokos (spontoon?). Only the richest may have sabres (there are only few in the findigs).

It can be important they go in fight with a lot of horses. They were able change the tired or injured horse to anoter one. Therefore I suggest (very) good stamina to (all) the steppen people.

Székelys or Székelyek are not a fantasy people they live yet (now!) in Transylvania. Their origin is not clear. They were maybe Bulgarians, Kabars or who knows?

The Várjobbányok were the officials of the Várnépek (=Castle warriors in this meaning).

Do you need old Hungarian names?

I have an English languaged history book for school children. I will scan it for myself and can drop it in file if you are interested.