"We'll Stay Multiculturally Correct - Even if it Kills Us"

**Steppe Merc** · 07-25-2005, 23:19

Oh. I'm confused now...

**Azi Tohak** · 07-25-2005, 23:30

Fatwa...

fatwa

n : a ruling on a point of Islamic law that is given by a recognized authority

So a fatwa was given...about the attacks...for or against?

Azi

**Steppe Merc** · 07-26-2005, 01:19

Um, it was against the attackers, I believe. Someone else knows more about it, and the what it actually means, though.

**Productivity** · 07-26-2005, 04:27

Originally Posted by Azi Tohak

Fatwa...

fatwa

n : a ruling on a point of Islamic law that is given by a recognized authority

So a fatwa was given...about the attacks...for or against?

Azi

It was against the attacks.

**Azi Tohak** · 07-26-2005, 04:48

Thanks. Just checking. I kept seeing the darned word...and it does make sense.

Too bad there is no Pope of Islam. One figurehead who could tell all the extremists 'No! Bad! Quit shooting us in the foot!'

Sorry that was bad. I wonder if it would be possible to motivate the rest of the Moslem world to get rid of the extremists. Probably not...but at least they could help ameliorate their influence.

Azi

**Productivity** · 07-26-2005, 05:34

I do get the impression that by far the majority of leaders are trying to calm it down, it's just the radicals who are stuffing the whole thing up. Here's part of a transcript from an interview with a muslim leader from an (Australian) ABC show I like to watch Lateline.

When reading it (and indeed watching it) I gave the Sheikh some leeway because it is obvious English isn't his first language, and so some of his words are somewhat clumsy sounding, but to me it seems the intent is good.

TONY JONES: Alright. Let's move on to the other thing you said that has get people upset, and that's your position on jihad. You are saying to young Australian Muslims, it appears, that it's not right to do jihad in Australia, but it would be righteous to fight a jihad in Iraq. Is that correct?

SHEIKH OMRAN: No, I didn't say that. I never said that and I always trying to calm my people and teach them that we need the youth to build Australia. But, again, this is a different view and a different time. Jihad, as I said, is a sword with two edges. It could cut you, which means you could understand it in the right way, and you could understand it in the wrong way. But we don't say jihad is not something we need. I don't say that.

TONY JONES: But would you say it is right to fight a Jihad in Iraq?

SHEIKH OMRAN: If there's a Jihad in Iraq I don't believe what's happening in Iraq today, with all of this interruption and misconduct with everyone against everyone is a jihad, I don't say that, no.

TONY JONES: So it would be wrong for any young Australian to go to Iraq to fight jihad, is that right?

SHEIKH OMRAN: That's less or more about what I'm saying, yes.

TONY JONES: Well, can you say that clearly so young Muslims will understand what you are saying? Is it wrong to fight a jihad?

SHEIKH OMRAN: Of course it is wrong. Especially nowadays it is wrong to do anything. I don't believe, as I said in Channel 9, and I believe you are aware of that, I said it maybe a year ago or more than that, jihad need establishment of a government to lead the jihad in the right order. I don't believe jihad can be done by everyone and anyone by no means and no target on it and achieving nothing at all.

TONY JONES: Alright. Now, again, the last time we spoke, you claimed that no true Muslim would have done anything as awful as the London train and bus bombings. It's now quit clear that young British-born Muslims carried out those bombings. Are you shocked by that?

SHEIKH OMRAN: Yes, I am. Absolutely.

TONY JONES: So what is the lesson for young Australian Muslims out of the bombings in London?

SHEIKH OMRAN: That to stay with their sheikhs, learn more about their religion, not to be led with mischief people to do a mischief action.

TONY JONES: Is suicide bombing an evil and a perversion of Islam?

SHEIKH OMRAN: Well, I can't say that as a general term, but it is for what they are doing now. Yes, it is.

TONY JONES: So how does it stand with you, Sheikh? Will suicide bombers end up in hell having broken one of the strictest commandment in the Koran against the killing of innocent people?

SHEIKH OMRAN: Hell or paradise is not in my hand or your hand, but we condemn the action and God only himself can judge these people when they pass to the next life. But what I say, the action - like what happened in London or what happened anywhere else - killing innocent people is not an Islamic action.

TONY JONES: What do you say to the delusion that many of these young suicide bombers have that they will go straight to heaven and be attended by 72 virgins?

SHEIKH OMRAN: I'm saying they got it wrong, and I hope the listeners understand that going to heaven is not just killing yourself, you go to heaven. You don't go to heaven if you don't have the right intention, and the good intention and the good deeds, and this is the only thing that can take you to heaven.

TONY JONES: Sheikh Mohomed Omran, we thank you once again for taking the time to come and talk to us tonight.

SHEIKH OMRAN: You're most welcome.

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 07-26-2005, 05:41

I think he illustrates just what wrong here. He should be outright condeming these people . Hes hedging his words. Its this well of course their wrong but what do you expect me to do attitude thats to blame. At least thats the perception of many here in the West. Again if christains were doing this we would be the first to hunt them down.

**Productivity** · 07-26-2005, 06:53

I disagree with you. He's hedging in some cases because he feels he can't do it due to his beleifs (ie. he can't say someone will go to hell, neither can he saysomeone will go to heaven), but where he can he's absolute enough.

Q: So it would be wrong for any young Australian to go to Iraq to fight jihad, is that right?
A: That's less or more about what I'm saying, yes.

That's pretty clear to me.

Q:It's now quit clear that young British-born Muslims carried out those bombings. Are you shocked by that?
A: Yes, I am. Absolutely.

Pretty clear that he feels shocked that people who claim to follow Islam would commit such atrocities.

Q: Is suicide bombing an evil and a perversion of Islam?
A: Well, I can't say that as a general term, but it is for what they are doing now. Yes, it is.

Again, pretty clear. He's hedging in sayign suicide bombings could be acceptible in some circumstances, but then goes on to say that in the circumstances of terrorism and the killing of innocents it is evil and a perversion of Islam.

Re. condemming.

SHEIKH OMRAN: Hell or paradise is not in my hand or your hand, but we condemn the action and God only himself can judge these people when they pass to the next life. But what I say, the action - like what happened in London or what happened anywhere else - killing innocent people is not an Islamic action.

**Ronin** · 07-26-2005, 14:16

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

I think he illustrates just what wrong here. He should be outright condeming these people . Hes hedging his words. Its this well of course their wrong but what do you expect me to do attitude thats to blame. At least thats the perception of many here in the West. Again if christains were doing this we would be the first to hunt them down.

i don´t think he´s hedging.....on the contrary...the intervier was trying to stuff words down his mouth, and he´s not going with that....he´s just making his position, he says that the london situation was wrong....can´t get much clearer than that.