Something you've probably never seen

**Zarax** · 07-25-2005, 14:00

Before you ask: No, i haven't hacked the Papacy, neither the faction names, nor cloned it...

ZXMOD, the Pope decides he can kick me off the seas with 3 galleys VS a few dozens fire, war and gun galleys...
In response as the Italians I invade Rome, while at the same time the Pope sends an army against Naples.

Results: no fight, the Pope escapes to the papal states while a small garrison stays in the castles, while the offensive army seemingly retreats from Naples after having seen the odds.

After all this stuff I fully expected an excommunication, instead this message arrived for my delight...

**NodachiSam** · 07-25-2005, 17:04

Wow, lucky you I guess

I've never seen the Byzantinians survive that well heh. It would have been cool if you could see the papal area in the screenshot but I know you can't move the screen with a message.

**Zarax** · 07-25-2005, 17:20

Originally Posted by NodachiSam

Wow, lucky you I guess

I've never seen the Byzantinians survive that well heh. It would have been cool if you could see the papal area in the screenshot but I know you can't move the screen with a message.

Yeah, the Byz surviving that far is quite unusual, since I started optimizing the AI the game is developing a mind of its own...

**antisocialmunky** · 07-25-2005, 23:42

That's popetastic of him to not excom you.

**manbaps** · 07-25-2005, 23:50

Seroiusly man thanks damn cool a real glictch normally its autoexcom even if the other members havent realised that any attack on the papacy is autoexcom. Well done for finding a gamn cool glitch

**King of Atlantis** · 07-26-2005, 00:11

Originally Posted by Zarax

Yeah, the Byz surviving that far is quite unusual, since I started optimizing the AI the game is developing a mind of its own...

the byzantine usually survive that good in my games, but how did you optimize the AI?

**Zarax** · 07-26-2005, 08:32

Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

the byzantine usually survive that good in my games, but how did you optimize the AI?

You can do a lot of good by tinkering with the starting units/development for the small factions, changing the basic AI script used by others and working on the unit production priorities.

**Roark** · 07-27-2005, 04:52

I wish His Holiness was this polite to ME...

**EatYerGreens** · 07-28-2005, 00:26

Might it be because it was the Papacy who initiated the war in the first place - by attacking your ships? Autoexcom makes sense if you attack him first but this is a subtly different situation.

My experience doesn't extend as far as a completed campaign but I have had that thing where some other faction attacks me first but it's me who receives the Papal warning. Galling, to say the least. (Again, it usually involves a sea battle as the first act of hostility).

Anyway, as I see it, his attack was an entirely political move. No doubt he is unable to threaten you militarily but he sees your strength is becoming excessive, so he starts a naval war so as to blockade your trade routes and troop movements and thus weaken you. You retaliate on land and end up with a 10-year warning, so he knew he could do all this safely.

My guess is that, if you now request a ceasefire, he will politely decline, no matter how many times you ask. If he still has any ships left, they will factor into the 10-year no-attack ban and will now be a royal p.i.t.a. hopping around the med and ruining your trade for the next decade. Possibly much longer if they do that battle-avoidance trick which only the AI ships seem to manage.

**DensterNY** · 08-04-2005, 18:11

Well, if the Pope attacks you militarily and you simply repel him do you get ex-communicated ? I would wager not but I'm just preparing myself as I've conquered the Italians and Sicilians and I've surrounded him and he has no fleet to harass me with.

I know that if you eliminate him he returns with stacks of the best troops which I'd rather not have to face so I wouldn't mind him staying in his face and periodically getting b***h slapped by my defensive border armies.

**Grey_Fox** · 08-04-2005, 18:21

It's probably becuase there was no actual fighting, just retreats.

**Geezer57** · 08-06-2005, 16:47

Originally Posted by DensterNY

Well, if the Pope attacks you militarily and you simply repel him do you get ex-communicated?

No, you won't get excommed for the above situation. It's different if your defenders retreat to the province stronghold, and are later relieved from the siege by other troops of yours. In that situation, the enemy (in this case the Papal faction) has taken over the province, and now owns it. If you relieve the siege, you're attacking the rightful owners of the land (your forces only control the stronghold) and will trigger an excom (if you've been previously warned).
Sucks, huh?

**EatYerGreens** · 08-06-2005, 20:46

Is there a way to sally the garrison and then get them to abandon the province without fighting, so as to evacuate the area and hand over undisputed ownership (siege situation means the province is in a 'contested' state and belongs to no-one, neither faction gaining any income from it that turn)?

As far as I know, an unsupported sally only gets the pre-battle-menu option of returning back to the castle. Is that right? (Not encountered this situation myself yet).

It's another situation entirely if you start the battle, get such poor visibility (rain/fog) that you can't hope to find, let alone root out every last defender from those woods and you can decide to abort at that point but the retreat button will, I presume just send you back to the castle, with no option of abandoning the province.

**Geezer57** · 08-07-2005, 17:16

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Is there a way to sally the garrison and then get them to abandon the province without fighting, so as to evacuate the area and hand over undisputed ownership (siege situation means the province is in a 'contested' state and belongs to no-one, neither faction gaining any income from it that turn)?

As far as I know, an unsupported sally only gets the pre-battle-menu option of returning back to the castle. Is that right? (Not encountered this situation myself yet).

It's another situation entirely if you start the battle, get such poor visibility (rain/fog) that you can't hope to find, let alone root out every last defender from those woods and you can decide to abort at that point but the retreat button will, I presume just send you back to the castle, with no option of abandoning the province.

I'm pretty sure the developers assumed that, once your forces were all in the stronghold, your troops were surrounded. That being the case, there's no option available to exit the province: your troops always end up in the castle. The only exception I can imagine is for your troops to sally forth, then somehow win the battle against the odds. Maybe if they were combined with a relief force?

Bottom line: once under siege, there's no way for a garrison to abandon the province, short of death or captivity.